VINDICATED! kinda

Started by LaskaS • 37 replies • 722 views

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LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025

Posted:

Hi, I wanted to give a brief update. Many of you have been helpful in giving me advice and also pointing me in the right direction regarding the legality or ilegality of issues I was concerned about.

The president was unsuccessful in his attempt to make every board members seat be up for reelection this year. I was serving a two year term. He had gone around and tried to get owners to sign over proxies. Long story short.
I was able to persistently and continually document and refer to our bylaws, state law, and case decisions that all clearly refuted what he was trying to do.

At the annual meeting, where a quorum wasn't met. I convinced the board to at least still have a short board meeting so we can go over some issues. Long story short. Two other board members who had previously deferred to the president . Finally had enough of the onsite property manager. And the president. !!!!!!! Both of the board members are usually very quiet. The treasurer was so fed up with being dismissed by the president when she raised concerns about the property manager that she basically detailed instance after instance of the property manager, lieing , coming in late, leaving early, not diong what he said he was going to do. ALL THE SAME THINGS I'VE BEEN SAYING FOR A YEAR!.

Every single board member agreed we are terminating the property manager. We have a good candidate and are meeting tomorrow to formally take a vote to hire her.

I have been helping the treasurer reconcile some of the issues she has tried to get addressed over the last year.

LO AND BEHOLD..I was going over the yearly summaries in strongroom(online payment and approval system) there were 19 plumbing invoices from 2019 to a certain plumbing company. I then manually went through each invoice and pulled up the actual written invoice from the plumber. 10 were issues that were on common property involving the boiler or main water or something. 9 were issues that were reported by owners and ended up being problems with the drain line under the building or a limited common junction that was leaking onto the lower unit. no fault of the upstairs owner, so common expense..

wait for it..

THERE WAS THIS ONE INVOICE.. every line item on it was clearly an individual owners responsibility. no doubt about it.. one issue was a leak under the bathroom sink at the p trap. one was a clog in the drain line that connected the kitchen sink and washing machine and then exited to the common line,, the clog was in the connecting line, not common line. one line item was caulking around bathroom fixtures to prevent water from getting behind the wall. the worked totaled 368.73I'm thinking to myself, why in the hell did the propert manager approve spending hoa funds for work that was clearly inside an owners unit and the owners responsibility. However, I also know that sometimes a plumber has come and the hoa pays the bill but then immediately charges the owners account. (this isn't supposed to occur, without owner oking). This was all in july 2019. So i go to the july, august ,september financials. go to to the individual owners section at the end of the financials.. and there was no chargeback!.... i'll give you one guess whose unit I am talking about.

Yep... the president.......

more details later.. i'm sill concerned the president is going to somehow come up with a way to delay firing of the property manager, and also have some ridiculous excuse why he wasn't charged back.. there is no way that the work could have been done inside his unit without the plumber having access to his unit..

to be continued.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LaskaS on 02/29/2020 1:07 AM
Hi, I wanted to give a brief update. Many of you have been helpful in giving me advice and also pointing me in the right direction regarding the legality or ilegality of issues I was concerned about.

The president was unsuccessful in his attempt to make every board members seat be up for reelection this year. I was serving a two year term. He had gone around and tried to get owners to sign over proxies. Long story short.
I was able to persistently and continually document and refer to our bylaws, state law, and case decisions that all clearly refuted what he was trying to do.

At the annual meeting, where a quorum wasn't met. I convinced the board to at least still have a short board meeting so we can go over some issues. Long story short. Two other board members who had previously deferred to the president . Finally had enough of the onsite property manager. And the president. !!!!!!! Both of the board members are usually very quiet. The treasurer was so fed up with being dismissed by the president when she raised concerns about the property manager that she basically detailed instance after instance of the property manager, lieing , coming in late, leaving early, not diong what he said he was going to do. ALL THE SAME THINGS I'VE BEEN SAYING FOR A YEAR!.

Every single board member agreed we are terminating the property manager. We have a good candidate and are meeting tomorrow to formally take a vote to hire her.

I have been helping the treasurer reconcile some of the issues she has tried to get addressed over the last year.

LO AND BEHOLD..I was going over the yearly summaries in strongroom(online payment and approval system) there were 19 plumbing invoices from 2019 to a certain plumbing company. I then manually went through each invoice and pulled up the actual written invoice from the plumber. 10 were issues that were on common property involving the boiler or main water or something. 9 were issues that were reported by owners and ended up being problems with the drain line under the building or a limited common junction that was leaking onto the lower unit. no fault of the upstairs owner, so common expense..

wait for it..

THERE WAS THIS ONE INVOICE.. every line item on it was clearly an individual owners responsibility. no doubt about it.. one issue was a leak under the bathroom sink at the p trap. one was a clog in the drain line that connected the kitchen sink and washing machine and then exited to the common line,, the clog was in the connecting line, not common line. one line item was caulking around bathroom fixtures to prevent water from getting behind the wall. the worked totaled 368.73I'm thinking to myself, why in the hell did the propert manager approve spending hoa funds for work that was clearly inside an owners unit and the owners responsibility. However, I also know that sometimes a plumber has come and the hoa pays the bill but then immediately charges the owners account. (this isn't supposed to occur, without owner oking). This was all in july 2019. So i go to the july, august ,september financials. go to to the individual owners section at the end of the financials.. and there was no chargeback!.... i'll give you one guess whose unit I am talking about.

Yep... the president.......

more details later.. i'm sill concerned the president is going to somehow come up with a way to delay firing of the property manager, and also have some ridiculous excuse why he wasn't charged back.. there is no way that the work could have been done inside his unit without the plumber having access to his unit..

to be continued.

Watergate all over again!

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

Watergate was child's play compared to today.

I have an issue with a board meeting, without notice, and firing a vendor.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

If the majority of the board is fed up with the president, why don't you replace him with another director?

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Doesn't Texas require 72 hours notice of board meetings and an agenda when substantive topics are discussed (general summary, below, is 2015 and an attorney summary only)? Did your membership meeting notice include a notice there would be a board meeting with those topics you mentioned?

"For any board meeting, in-person or otherwise, at which the following items are even DISCUSSED, regardless of whether a vote is taken, 72 hours notice must be given to all owners as outlined below. Items that may not even be discussed at a Board meeting without 72 hour owner notice are [bolded items are new effective 9-1-15]:
(1) fines;
(2) damage assessments;
(3) initiation of foreclosure actions or enforcement actions1;
(4) increases in assessments;
(5) levying special assessments;
(6) appeals from denials of architectural control approval;
(7) suspending rights of an owner before the owner has an opportunity to appear before the board;
(8) lending or borrowing money;
(9) the adoption and/or amendment of one of the association’s governing documents;
(10) the approval of an annual budget or and amendment of an annual budget that increases the budget by more than 10%;
(11) the sale or purchase of real property;
(12) filling a vacancy on the board;
(13) construction of new capital improvements (does not include repair, replacement, or enhancement of existing capital improvements); or
(14) the election of an officer. (These are the “magic 14” items that will be referenced further below.)"

And, finally - it sounds as if you are trying very, very hard to find something wrong ... your posts make it sound like you are seeking battle. I've no problem with this, but it has that feel of Don Quixote ... especially since it sounds like the Board has chosen to retain the current president. Is it simply you vs the president? Again, I've no problem with this, but your end state is not clear to me.

Re the single invoice paid, that was the president's work - you note the HOA pays some bills like this - could it not simply be an error? The real point you should have made is that the accounting system isn't perfect, and that the president is paying the amount back because the president agrees it was in error.

LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025

Posted:

hello. Of course. I crossed by t's and dotted my eyes.. 5 days notice is required for a board meeting.
we are condominium association not a hoa,, in texas.. all meetings are open. .. owners don't have to be notified. but if they ask they have to be told. .. All board members were given notice of today's meeting over 8 days ago, with a reminder sent yesterday.:-)

LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025

Posted:

let me clarify, at the annual meeting to vote for the board. A quorum of owners wasn't met. Therefore no board vote was taken.

there was definitely a quorum of the board.

LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025

Posted:

we aren't firing a vendor. the property manager is an employee of the association.
texas is a right to work state.

LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025

Posted:

george, no no,, it's not me against the president. I just have been battling the president because the onsite property manager was so freaking terrible. incompetent. A liar.

I must not have clarified,, up until last week. everyone had been pretty much not speaking up when the president was overstepping his authority..
For example, A president has a right to sign contracts.. not decide on contracts. HUGE difference. tg
All contracts over a certain amount , the hoa gets bids and the board is supposed to review and decide. that's how it's supposed to work.
what's been happening is, because the property manager is so incompetent. The president would basically be the one who would decide what issues were addressed with regards to property maintenance. It's just backasswards.

Anyway,, with regards to the plumbing invoice.
I dont have proof, but I kinda personally believe that the president didn't direct the manager not to charge him back. I just don't think that's the kind of guy the president is. What I do think happened is,, the work was done. and the property manager on his own decided not to charge back the president. and then the president never insisted he be charged.

There may be some explanation the president didn't know. However, the issues were all inside the presidents unit. the unit was empty at the time. being prepared to rent out. The president had been working almost every day getting the unit ready to rent. He completely renovated it. There was was an issue downstairs from the president. So the plumber may have been called initially to diagnose what the issue was. However. nothing on the invoice talks about the issue downstairs.

I think what may have happened. the downstairs unit has a leak. so a plumber was called. The plumber had access the presidents unit to further investigate the downstairs issue. The issue downstairs was related to a washing machine drain coming out of the wall at the connection( it's happened to me before.. this is a common issue if people don't attache the washing machine drain correctly to the drain.
When the plumber was inside the presidents unit. The plumber found some issues that needed attention. The plumber notified the property manager and the manager said.."go ahead and fix them". I dont think the president even knew that there were issues found. i think the property manager was "doing the pres a favor". if this makes sense. The dates on the invoices do make the scenario very plausible. The president was on vacation and had given the property manager his keys.

However. the one thing I can't explain away. the very next month. the president actually did pay the plumber to do some work. Initially when I brought up the issue of this invoice. the president insisted he had paid the plumber directly.

Turns out the president did pay the plumber directly,,he sent me a copy of the canceled check. but it was a totally different invoice and work order. .. I don't see how the president can say he didn't know the previous month work was done, if a month later when the president returned. he decided to have proceed with the recommendations the plumber made on the original invoice that the hoa paid for. does this make sesnse.

Now.. this is all just a small mount of money approx 350. I just don't think the president is a crook.. I think it was a willing oversight, if that makes sense. However. it kinda finally explains why the president kept protecting the property manager. Not because he was getting favors. But because he could control everything. The property manager doesn't even show up to meetings.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LaskaS on 02/29/2020 8:15 AM
we aren't firing a vendor. the property manager is an employee of the association. texas is a right to work state.

-- I think that the board agreeing to find a new manager; what the treasurer did (wow, she is serious!); and more vindicates your efforts.

-- I am going to be impertinent (since your threads are so entertaining and you do seem to hear out what people advise): I would suggest limiting your gloating [wink] to this forum. I think humility wins voters. You may need these voters at next year's election.

-- "Right to work" laws refer to negotiations between unions and corporations. Last I read, HOA managers are not unionized.

-- Lots of people like to throw around the phrase "at will employment state." Texas is one of these states. But if the manager is legally an "employee," and if you check with the treasurer and confirm unemployment insurance is being paid by the HOA, the HOA may be hit with a sizable sum of money by the government if and when this employee is terminated. It depends. I am not expert on this point but terminating any employee, especially without cause, is not as easy as I think many believe, even in states with "at will employment" laws. Documentation of poor performance may be essential. The treasurer sounds like she is hip to the need for documentation. Let's see what happens.

-- You did your homework on the plumbing dispute and found what you first posted was not quite correct. I do not think $350 or so is trivial, especially if were an inappropriate benefit to either the president or manager. Still, the signs are that the situation, while confusing, is not as bad as you thought. You say you trust the President to be honest on this point. I think I would drop it.

LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025

Posted:

augustin

sorry,, i confused the two.. yes,, you are correct.. at will employee is the the correct term.

We did discuss the possibility of him claiming unemployment. the president insisted that it did not amount to that much of an increase on our unemployment insurance.. we only have 4 employees.

Regarding without cause... OMG, there are hundreds of reason.. lieing on his application. coming late leaving early not correctly managing the property. but i don't think we have a formal write up in his file..
plus, the president wants to give him two weeks severance.

augustin, ok,, so on a previou post. i was advised to pick my battles.
this thing with the plumbing charge.

I agree, it definitely is not as egregious as it first looked. If the president says he wasn't aware that he wasn't aware of the work that was done. so he had no reason to question why there was no charge. That would be a plausible explanation. However, If I keep digging. (i've kinda already started). and I find out that the work the president did pay for was in fact the exact recommendations given by the same plumber on the original invoice. (that was incorrectly paid for by the hoa and never charged back) That implies that the president saw the original invoice. And that means he knows he should have been charged.
plus. I'm positive the president is the one who tells the property manager whether to charge back the owner or not. (this is completely wrong. as the property manager should be determining this, and if it's the owners responsiblity, the property manager should tell the owner to call a plumber.)

My point is, I'm pretty sure I can Nail the president on this point. It was wrong. But i don't think that the president was in on it. I do think the president realized it after the fact and did not tell the manager to charge his account. Yes one is worse than the other. However. The president of the HOA is supposed to be watching out for the hoa funds. I don't think this rises to the level of kicking the president off the board. However. I do think that shows a serious lack of oversight, when he was so insistent that we was the only one who was allowed to interact with the property manager. Which then led to this.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Laska,

My opinion is ... you need to pull up about 20,000 feet and work for the long term good.

Plus, to me, you’re still not making sense.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Good to hear, LaskaS.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GeorgeS21 on 02/29/2020 2:27 PM
Laska,

My opinion is ... you need to pull up about 20,000 feet and work for the long term good.

Plus, to me, you’re still not making sense.

I agree.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LaskaS on 02/29/2020 2:21 PM
We did discuss the possibility of him claiming unemployment. the president insisted that it did not amount to that much of an increase on our unemployment insurance.. we only have 4 employees. Regarding without cause... OMG, there are hundreds of reason.. lieing on his application. coming late leaving early not correctly managing the property. but i don't think we have a formal write up in his file..
plus, the president wants to give him two weeks severance.

I hope I made clear that I am not really sure whether the effect on the HOA of the unemployment insurance will be meaningful. Last time I observed a situation where a board contemplated termination of an employee, I had the impression that the HOA would have to pay the terminated employee something like a year of salary. On the other hand, sometimes this is worth it.

For the archives, I think "at will employment" laws translate to an employee not being able to sue if she or he is terminated, unless the termination is on account of their race, sex, religion et cetera, or because the employee refused to do something illegal. But the direct costs of terminating an employee may still be high on account of unemployment insurance? High enough that it's not unknown for employers to make work conditions miserable enough (but still lawful) to encourage the employee to quit.

I think I get the gist of your concerns about the president possibly getting free plumbing service. I think I would not like the appearance of things. I continue to feel many a HOA director feels like they are entitled to various freebies or at least special consideration and special services from management. It disappoints. Bylaws and CC&Rs are clear: No compensation of directors allowed except for bona fide expenses like maybe office supplies.

I do not fault you for looking into this. And I certainly do not advice piloting your plane to 20,000 feet so as not to see all the blemishes. (I do like the metaphor, GeorgeS21. ) Embezzlement happens a lot, and that is what this may amount to. Plus there may be more.

I guess if other directors do not seem interested, then based in experience, I might wait for more directors to show interest in removing the President. I think you posted once that one of the directors pointed out to you that the President does the lion's share of the work, so the other directors hesitate to remove him. On the third hand, I think I would be in serious internal conflict over this seeming (so far) theft.

Things are never black and white. "But for the grace of god (or the goodness of society), there go I"?

PaulJ6
Posts: 990

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LaskaS on 02/29/2020 1:07 AM
THERE WAS THIS ONE INVOICE.. every line item on it was clearly an individual owners responsibility. no doubt about it.. one issue was a leak under the bathroom sink at the p trap. one was a clog in the drain line that connected the kitchen sink and washing machine and then exited to the common line,, the clog was in the connecting line, not common line. one line item was caulking around bathroom fixtures to prevent water from getting behind the wall. the worked totaled 368.73I'm thinking to myself, why in the hell did the propert manager approve spending hoa funds for work that was clearly inside an owners unit and the owners responsibility. However, I also know that sometimes a plumber has come and the hoa pays the bill but then immediately charges the owners account. (this isn't supposed to occur, without owner oking). This was all in july 2019. So i go to the july, august ,september financials. go to to the individual owners section at the end of the financials.. and there was no chargeback!.... i'll give you one guess whose unit I am talking about.

Yep... the president.......

So the president was basically stealing from the HOA.

That is breach of fiduciary duty, "conversion" (the nice legal term for "theft") and lots more.

You can certainly file a lawsuit against the president in small claims court for that. It would be a "derivative" suit, and you would need to first demand that the president pay back the HOA funds, and then the court could force the president to.

That is not acceptable at all. I hope that you send a derivative demand letter to the president, demanding that the president pay back those funds, and copy the entire HOA.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

The pull up is based on the need to NOT be so distracted by the ankle biting that you forget what you are there to do.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

George, I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on the seriousness of what it seems the President did (and may be doing often).

But as serious as this is, right now I am not sure how to address it. Director LaskaS's board seems to be in the thick of a charged political HOA climate where some real good is being accomplished (like taking steps to get a new manager). I do not think Director LaskaS is in a position to do what PaulJ6 proposes. Though I appreciate that PaulJ6 sees the seriousness of this. It really should not be hand-waved away, IMO.

LaskaS does seem on a good track. Maybe it's far from perfect but wow, getting the whole board to agree the manager needs to go is huge.

LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025

Posted:

ha ha,, I didn't understand the 20,000 ft metaphor.. thanks for explaining it augustine.

George i'm not just looking for things to find wrong. believe me. I would love love love if there were clear internal controls and transparency of what is going on .

Because of the occurances of the last two years.. and the complete lack of attention to detail on things.

My nature it to try and understand things. I would not feel comfortable making decisions on things I had no clue about... I don't understand why some board members are fine to just leave it up to whatever the president decides. I was hoping to find info that would help me explain to the board that if you are just going to let the president do everything, what's the point of having a board.

I get caught up in the minutia sometimes because I happened to notice something that didn't seem right.. and so I took a look, and that revealed something else, and so on and so on. And I mean, Im either going to take and look and get to the bottom of it.. or i'm not. I'm not going to take a look , and then ignore obvious red flags.

I am continually surprised at at how many people will notice something out of the ordinary,,
most people keep walking. if it doesn't affect them they aren't interested.
some take a look but don't really see what is there , they were just going through the motions
fewer take a look, notice something, so they even look under a rock, but then they don't even recognize the dead animal under the rock.(sorry i was trying to think of something that would be obvious and grotesque and not supposed to be there),
and it seems very very few will stop take a look. look under the rock, then see the animal and find out where the animal came from and where it's supposed to be and then make sure the animal is removed from under a rock
anyway you get my point..(does anyone have more succinct way to explain the phenomena I just explained)

everyone has a right to approach things the way they want to. However,, when you sign up for board duty, aren't you implying that you are willing to take and extra hard look and make sure there are no dead animals. and if you find dead animals, you make sure they are removed etc.

my point is george. I wouldn't have zeroed in on the issues i've brought up if They didn't raise a red flag. and another red flag and another red flag.

Also. the more I read about the hoa industry and the companies that are around to support the hoa machine rather than the owners. It really reminds me how the worst of the worst back channel politics is portrayed.. Noone really wants to do the right thing, they just want to make sure their interest is taken care of.

I wonder if anything can be done.. It seems to me that as designed. hoa;s do serve a purpose and can be good. However in practice a few ignorant people or outright dishonest people can really screw a whole neighborhood.. and they can use the neighborhoods money to do it.

LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025

Posted:

thanks augustin!.. I so wanted to get up and cheer. but I didn't. And i haven't gloated to any of the board. That would be doing exactly what the president wants.. as he has tried to portray my complaints and issues with the property manager as personal. THEY ARE NOT PERSONAL. I already admit I don't like the guy personally, he's creepy. .

I wish i could attach a mp3 file, I finally recorded how the guy talks down to me and treats me and other owners. but he's an angel in front of the president..

can i attach a file and then remove the file.. Its not identifying per say, but i still don't want it just to be up here forever.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

I suggest skipping the MP3 file and simmilar. Instead, consider how Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and Speaker Nancy Pelosi made clear in 2019, after defeating Trump on "the wall," that gloating is unbecoming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs6zY-ijaQE

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

Laska

What Augie is suggesting is turn your scenario into a SNL skits and that should impress everyone.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Augustin,

I don't know about the seriousness, because it is not clear, except from a single perspective - and that perspective has been muddled at times - that there are serious issues.

Issues - sure.

My point continues to be that Laska appears to have issues at every turn - most interesting to me is the summary of how the property manager talks to them - and, then with recording ... a lot of defensiveness and "I'll show them" tone.

Way too much personality and negative involvement for me - and the way I would approach this. I can't really tell what the core issue(s) are - I can tell there is a lot of discussion from Laska, but can't tell what portions of the long series of issues are really issues - or, just ankle biting. I just can't tell.

I can say that I would NOT approach this the way Laska is.

This is a business. You have meetings in business to clear the air and address issues. If you get shut down and still feel you are in the right, then you go formal. You follow the rules of the organization - and, then the state - if needed. You don't quit, but you don't whine about how people are treating you.

If nothing else works, in an HOA you gather support from others - in a business like manner - and fix things. If this is a dead end and you still feel wronged, or that something important is worth it to you - you grab and attorney and move out.

LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025

Posted:

the mp3, wasn't gloating, it was just to emphasize that my personal dislike of the property manager had nothing to do with the need to have him removed. He literally followed me out of the office chanting..and anyway,, I have no need to gloat in public.. however,,

I AM VERY HAPPY! FINALLY, WE ARE GOING TO GET A COMPETENT PROPERTY MANAGER.

ok that's my gloat,

anyway,, thank you all for yalls help,, i'm sure i'll be back.. I have tried to give the president an out .. I have come up with a reasonably plausible explanation for the plumbing being pad for out of hoa funds. If my theory is correct, the president was an unknowing recipient of work that the hoa paid for. For the theory to be possible, i gave the president every benefit of the doubt at every junction of the recreated timeline.
I wish the president would have given me the same consideration for the past year.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

GeorgeS21, "in a business like manner." I see.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

I am suggesting LaskaS enjoy the moment.

LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025

Posted:

I've lived here for since i was 26, ,, 22 years.(yeah i'm old) and the things.. In all honesty,, I didn't even know there was a board for 20 of those years. I didn't really bother to know any of my neighbors. I just went about my life, and the common areas were well taken care . I did get notices from the office from time to time to clean up my balcony. I did argue from time to time , for instance one time i planted some little flowers in the front of my building... they were removed, I was livid... however, the property manager gave me a copy of the ccr's , there in black and white . owners cant plant their own flowers in the common areas. . So i told the property manager, sorry for getting mad. and went home. she was right I was wrong.
sometimes things worked out the other way, and something would happen that was clearly arbitrary enforcement. I would argue and argue to no avail. I then realized you have to refer to the documents. And if I made my points in a letter to the appropriate entity, board manager, management company, hoa lawyer, boards of directors. And If i was right. then I was right. and they backed down.

However that was maybe 4 times over 20 years. this past 2 years I only got involved because there was so much wrongdoing, and noone was putting a stop to it. and I Knew i was right, I knew that there were hoa documents that laid out some specifics and some vague things. there was not choice on the black and white things.. yes the black and white things were being completely ignored .

george, I am bummed that you perceived my attempts at detailed explanations to be muddled. I already acknowledge, my punctuation and lack of spell check and the like made some of my posts hard to read. The recording was a final attempt at me trying to show the other board members that the property manager was one way with me and a completely different way with the president and the two times he showed up to meetings. he seemed pleasant enough. Funny though, I never even played it for the board. Finally everything came out.

i do have a lot of personality, i'm intense. i'm passionate about things. It has allowed me to be very successful as many things. However. the negativity has come out because of the seemingly endless corruption, and disregard for right and wrong.

and i did follow the rules.. it's when suddenly the board wasn't following the rules and no one cared about the rules that I finally got involved. I tried the calm nice way,, and it often worked when people are all following the rules.. when noone is following the rules or arbitrarily applying the rules.. I am going to make sure everyone knows that it is wrong. I'm going to inform every owner . and let the chips fall where they may.. i'm not going to go along to get along.. not when it involves other peoples money.
i guess i did kinda follow the rules of a business that you outlined.,for a long time. but when the business stopped operating like it was required to operate i gathered support. not calmly though, because the money was being paid out so quickly, the normal checks and balances weren't in place...

The grabbing an attorney. I talked to several attorneys. every single story I read about a homeowner going against a corrupt board was a lose lose outcome. the attorneys make the money. Plus, it's not a level playing field, an owner is required to put up their own money while the board gets to use none of their own money but the hoa money. I will agree.. If I had a secret trust fund, in retrospect I would have gotten a lawyer early on..

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

OK.

Guess I’ll give up.

BH5 (Virginia)
Posts: 84

Posted:

Yeah! Happy for you. I wish I could get lucky like that.

PaulJ6
Posts: 990

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LaskaS on 02/29/2020 5:42 PM

The grabbing an attorney. I talked to several attorneys. every single story I read about a homeowner going against a corrupt board was a lose lose outcome. the attorneys make the money. Plus, it's not a level playing field, an owner is required to put up their own money while the board gets to use none of their own money but the hoa money. I will agree.. If I had a secret trust fund, in retrospect I would have gotten a lawyer early on..

I sued my HOA. It cost me about $30k in legal fees. But the board was removed as part of the process. I signed a "confidential" agreement and thus decline to say more about the outcome, but I'm happy.

If I were you I'd raise the president's theft to other owners and would send a "derivative lawsuit demand letter" to the board. Then I would sue the board president in small claims court, to force the president to repay the stolen funds to the HOA. The costs on your end will be minimal, particularly if another owner who is a lawyer will help, and you will hold the president accountable.

Please do this.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Lawsuit! Lawsuit! Lawsuit!

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

For the archives, in Texas it appears a shareholder/member of a nonprofit corporation (such as a HOA) cannot file a derivative suit. The shareholder/member is stuck with the remedies offered by the HOA's governing documents and the Texas Nonprofit Corporations statute. Specifically --

-- In Texas, for profit corporations have a statute that authorizes derivative claims (when certain requirements are met). See https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/BO/htm/BO.21.htm. Here's some case law supporting the contention that Texas nonprofit corporation member/shareholders may not bring derivative claims:
-- https://cases.justia.com/texas/first-court-of-appeals/2015-01-14-00973-cv.pdf?ts=1447150836
-- https://www.txfiduciarylitigator.com/2019/07/federal-district-court-holds-that-a-former-director-of-nonprofit-did-not-have-standing-to-sue-for-the-boards-breach-of-fiduciary-duty-and-that-employers-do-not-owe-fiduciary-duties-to-employe/

-- Nonprofit corporate shareholders/members may sue for "defective corporate acts" under a long section in the Texas Nonprofit Corporation statute. See https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/BO/htm/BO.22.htm

The above is a "just saying." LaskaS has indicated she does not have the evidence to sue.

PaulJ6
Posts: 990

Posted:

AugustinD, thanks.

OP, I would still raise the president’s theft to other owners. Be sure that you state only facts that are 100% verifiable, even the resulting allegations aren’t as strong as you’d like.

I’d still do a derivative demand, but that’s just me.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Of course you would, Paul 🙂

LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025

Posted:

paul.

actually I need to pick my battles.

It's literally like pulling teeth. just to get anything done. I sent an email to the board stating that if my theory was correct, and the president didn't even know that work had been done. Then fine,as soon as the new property manager starts, the board will instruct her to charge your account for the total. However, I want to let the board know, this is just another confirmation of what I have been saying for the last year. The property manager is incompetent, a liar and now a thief,,,his paying for owner responsibility plumbing work out of hoa funds, even if it didnt personally enrich him, It was theft none the less.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

I thought you previously said work was sometimes paid for by the association, then repaid via billing to those owners?

PaulJ6
Posts: 990

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LaskaS on 03/01/2020 9:10 PM
paul.

actually I need to pick my battles.

It's literally like pulling teeth. just to get anything done. I sent an email to the board stating that if my theory was correct, and the president didn't even know that work had been done. Then fine,as soon as the new property manager starts, the board will instruct her to charge your account for the total. However, I want to let the board know, this is just another confirmation of what I have been saying for the last year. The property manager is incompetent, a liar and now a thief,,,his paying for owner responsibility plumbing work out of hoa funds, even if it didnt personally enrich him, It was theft none the less.

But you want to battle- justifiably.

A President basically stealing HOA resources is a clear and direct violation of the law, and other owners are likely to get upset.

Other things that make you mad might not be as brazenly illegal or actionable.

Why not focus on this issue? You want to get rid of the president, don't you?

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LaskaS on 03/01/2020 9:10 PM
actually I need to pick my battles. It's literally like pulling teeth. just to get anything done. I sent an email to the board stating that if my theory was correct, and the president didn't even know that work had been done. Then fine,as soon as the new property manager starts, the board will instruct her to charge your account for the total. However, I want to let the board know, this is just another confirmation of what I have been saying for the last year. The property manager is incompetent, a liar and now a thief,,,his paying for owner responsibility plumbing work out of hoa funds, even if it didnt personally enrich him, It was theft none the less.

LaskaS, from all I can tell, I think you are right to set aside seeming improprieties with the {plumbing and president}. I think arguing with the President about this impropriety, right now, is going to distract the other directors, and I think in a bad way. Plus you do not have hard evidence at this time. Instead, yes, focus on replacing the HOA manager. Because (1) a new manager is what hopefully will make all the difference; (2) it is a huge chore to (a) safely dismiss one manager; (b) interview prospective new managers; and (c) get the new manager settled in.

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