NoellaD (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posts: 4
Posted:
What happens is the Hearing/Fining Committee members do not show up for a scheduled hearing and the homeowners do? What happens to the documented violations?
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Hearing Committee Does Not Show Up
Started by NoellaD • 21 replies • 700 views
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GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
There was not a quorum of the Fines Committee - I was assume it would be rescheduled.
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posts: 310
Posted:
If the committee did not notify the offender I would argue they found the offender not guilty. What are you suppose to do take time off from work and show up for a hearing an unlimited number of times waiting for a quorum? I would think the HOA failed to prove the HOA guilty.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
We had a similar incident in which the Architecture Committee failed appear at a meeting which was scheduled with the owner involved to review the appeal of an application which had been rejected. I/we understand things happen and meetings must sometimes be cancelled and rescheduled.
In this age of cell phones, not having the courtesy to call, text, or email is inexcusable. I seriously got into the face of the committee chair (who is also a member of the Board of the master association) as well as the President of the Board of the master association. Both he and the committee chair (under some duress as I understand it) called the owner the next day to apologize.
Again, there is no excuse for not notifying someone a meeting has been cancelled.
In this age of cell phones, not having the courtesy to call, text, or email is inexcusable. I seriously got into the face of the committee chair (who is also a member of the Board of the master association) as well as the President of the Board of the master association. Both he and the committee chair (under some duress as I understand it) called the owner the next day to apologize.
Again, there is no excuse for not notifying someone a meeting has been cancelled.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I agree with Sam. These hearings should be scheduled in good faith and every ccommittee member should make every effort to show up. To just cancel the meeting without any prior notice to the homeowner is very disrespectful. Everyone's time is valuable.
For a fine to be levied, the homeowner has to be given a 14-day notice and an "opportunity for a hearing before a committee of at least three members". The statute also says, "If the committee, by majority vote, does not approve a proposed fine or suspension, the proposed fine or suspension may not be imposed." It's not the homeowner's fault that the committee failed to meet on the scheduled date and time and the record should show that, on the day and time that the hearing was scheduled, with a 14-day advance notice, the committee did not, by majority vote, approve any fine and therefore, no fine may be imposed.
I might send the board a certified letter outlining my understanding. Save all the paperwork (especially the Notice of the hearing). Unfortunately the statute isn't clearer. It should specify that a scheduled hearing conducted by the fining committee with 14-days notice IS the one bite at the apple that the association gets.
For a fine to be levied, the homeowner has to be given a 14-day notice and an "opportunity for a hearing before a committee of at least three members". The statute also says, "If the committee, by majority vote, does not approve a proposed fine or suspension, the proposed fine or suspension may not be imposed." It's not the homeowner's fault that the committee failed to meet on the scheduled date and time and the record should show that, on the day and time that the hearing was scheduled, with a 14-day advance notice, the committee did not, by majority vote, approve any fine and therefore, no fine may be imposed.
I might send the board a certified letter outlining my understanding. Save all the paperwork (especially the Notice of the hearing). Unfortunately the statute isn't clearer. It should specify that a scheduled hearing conducted by the fining committee with 14-days notice IS the one bite at the apple that the association gets.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Do not assume anything.
Follow up with a letter/email to the board asking what happened and why you were not notified.
See what they say.
Follow up with a letter/email to the board asking what happened and why you were not notified.
See what they say.
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posts: 310
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 02/24/2020 3:22 PM
Do not assume anything.
Follow up with a letter/email to the board asking what happened and why you were not notified.
See what they say.
Do not assume anything.
Follow up with a letter/email to the board asking what happened and why you were not notified.
See what they say.
I would would not assume I would send a confirmation letter to the Board confirming there is no fine because there was no hearing. I would not be shocked if the Board responded saying there was still a fine but my position would be they had their chance and the blew it. I do agree you should send a letter or email.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Sam, your posts indicate that you prefer to believe you need to be compensated for the inconvenience.
In my opinion, your method will simply cause more issues.
I prefer to believe that it was a stupid mistake and treating everyone with respect should provide a sympathetic ear to the issue.
Lets expect that one isn't called to a hearing because they are complying with the covenants.
In my opinion, your method will simply cause more issues.
I prefer to believe that it was a stupid mistake and treating everyone with respect should provide a sympathetic ear to the issue.
Lets expect that one isn't called to a hearing because they are complying with the covenants.
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
If action is brought in Small Claims Court and the plaintiff doesn't show up, the case against the defendant is dismissed without prejudice. Same hold true if this is held in California. If the Board doesn't show, case dismissed and you start over.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
It wasn't in a court of law.
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 02/24/2020 7:57 PM
It wasn't in a court of law.
It wasn't in a court of law.
You're right, it wasn't in a court of law.
If a owner was called to a hearing to answer a violation letter, what would happen?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
When I served on our Architectural committee and when I served on the board, hearings were only held when the individual ignored the letters and never replied or addressed the issue. Typically, at the Architectural meeting, it was 50/50 if the member showed. It was better when the board held a hearing (80% would show).
If a member showed to the hearing we, committee or board, would listen, ask questions and try to work out a compromise.
If a member showed to the hearing we, committee or board, would listen, ask questions and try to work out a compromise.
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 02/24/2020 8:07 PM
When I served on our Architectural committee and when I served on the board, hearings were only held when the individual ignored the letters and never replied or addressed the issue. Typically, at the Architectural meeting, it was 50/50 if the member showed. It was better when the board held a hearing (80% would show).
If a member showed to the hearing we, committee or board, would listen, ask questions and try to work out a compromise.
When I served on our Architectural committee and when I served on the board, hearings were only held when the individual ignored the letters and never replied or addressed the issue. Typically, at the Architectural meeting, it was 50/50 if the member showed. It was better when the board held a hearing (80% would show).
If a member showed to the hearing we, committee or board, would listen, ask questions and try to work out a compromise.
If they didn't show up?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
We have never had an issue with the committee not showing up.
We have changed dates, but always informed the member.
In fact, we offer the member to pick a date if they can't make it.
Personally, I think the issue with the OP was a stupid mistake by the committee.
Someone dropped the ball and failed to notify.
Mistakes happen. We have all made mistakes.
We have changed dates, but always informed the member.
In fact, we offer the member to pick a date if they can't make it.
Personally, I think the issue with the OP was a stupid mistake by the committee.
Someone dropped the ball and failed to notify.
Mistakes happen. We have all made mistakes.
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posts: 310
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 02/24/2020 7:21 PM
Sam, your posts indicate that you prefer to believe you need to be compensated for the inconvenience.
In my opinion, your method will simply cause more issues.
I prefer to believe that it was a stupid mistake and treating everyone with respect should provide a sympathetic ear to the issue.
Lets expect that one isn't called to a hearing because they are complying with the covenants.
Sam, your posts indicate that you prefer to believe you need to be compensated for the inconvenience.
In my opinion, your method will simply cause more issues.
I prefer to believe that it was a stupid mistake and treating everyone with respect should provide a sympathetic ear to the issue.
Lets expect that one isn't called to a hearing because they are complying with the covenants.
Tim I don't believe you need to be compensated for inconvenience. I believe you are innocent until proven guilty. Therefore since the HOA did not prove you guilty at the place and time they set you are innocent. What would happen if the homeowner forgot to show up? Our HOA would say he is guilty. Also, if the HOA can't show up at a hearing they called I would not expect they were correct about the owner not complying with the covenants. In reality if I thought I was breaking the covenants I would pay the fine and move on, the purpose of a hearing is to find out if the covenants are being broken. If you are at the fining stage and hoping for sympathy you be out of luck at our HOA because we try to work out issues before we issue fines.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Sam,
I completely disagree with your assessment of being innocent because the meeting didn’t occur.
I completely disagree with your assessment of being innocent because the meeting didn’t occur.
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamE2 on 02/25/2020 6:11 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 02/24/2020 7:21 PM
Sam, your posts indicate that you prefer to believe you need to be compensated for the inconvenience.
In my opinion, your method will simply cause more issues.
I prefer to believe that it was a stupid mistake and treating everyone with respect should provide a sympathetic ear to the issue.
Lets expect that one isn't called to a hearing because they are complying with the covenants.
Sam, your posts indicate that you prefer to believe you need to be compensated for the inconvenience.
In my opinion, your method will simply cause more issues.
I prefer to believe that it was a stupid mistake and treating everyone with respect should provide a sympathetic ear to the issue.
Lets expect that one isn't called to a hearing because they are complying with the covenants.
Tim I don't believe you need to be compensated for inconvenience. I believe you are innocent until proven guilty. Therefore since the HOA did not prove you guilty at the place and time they set you are innocent. What would happen if the homeowner forgot to show up? Our HOA would say he is guilty. Also, if the HOA can't show up at a hearing they called I would not expect they were correct about the owner not complying with the covenants. In reality if I thought I was breaking the covenants I would pay the fine and move on, the purpose of a hearing is to find out if the covenants are being broken. If you are at the fining stage and hoping for sympathy you be out of luck at our HOA because we try to work out issues before we issue fines.
I agree 100%
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamE2 on 02/24/2020 4:39 PM
I would would not assume I would send a confirmation letter to the Board confirming there is no fine because there was no hearing. I would not be shocked if the Board responded saying there was still a fine but my position would be they had their chance and the blew it. I do agree you should send a letter or email.
I would would not assume I would send a confirmation letter to the Board confirming there is no fine because there was no hearing. I would not be shocked if the Board responded saying there was still a fine but my position would be they had their chance and the blew it. I do agree you should send a letter or email.
In the courts when one party does not show up, a default judgment (in favor of the party that showed up) is typically issued. If the board continues to claim a fine is imposed, having failed to give the HOA member due process, then the OP should post back for further advice.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
What Augustine said I would also include in the letter " since you failed to show for said hearing. I am going to assume that all said fines and actions held against me are withdrawn and consider the matter settled.
Send the letter registered US mail with signature and return receipt service.
Send the letter registered US mail with signature and return receipt service.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
I would smile after reading that letter, and continue the process.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 02/25/2020 12:12 PM
I would smile after reading that letter, and continue the process.
I would smile after reading that letter, and continue the process.
If I were on the OP's Board, only if the violation was ongoing would I continue. Anything else just adds to the unprofessionalism in not showing up for the hearing.
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posts: 310
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 02/25/2020 6:32 AM
Sam,
I completely disagree with your assessment of being innocent because the meeting didn’t occur.
Sam,
I completely disagree with your assessment of being innocent because the meeting didn’t occur.
I'm fine with you disagreeing but please answer my question of what would happen if the home owner did show up.
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