Also SC resident and Pond issues

Started by LouiseH1 • 39 replies • 2995 views

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LouiseH1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Residents in our HOA have received $100.00 a week fines until they trim the shrubbery along the Pond Banks. The residents along the pond areas have never been told this was their responsbility.

I am taking the advice given and will research the County records. Our committee has considered going to the County Council for some guidance.

When is a change considered an amendment or just an added rule or regulation?
Louise1

VinceE (South Carolina)
Posts: 1

Posted:

LouiseH1, a good place to start would be to discover who has title to the property where the shrubby is located. Is it Common Property or do those units adjacent to the pond have property lines that run to the water's edge? Who planted the shrubbery? I don't have any idea as to why you think a County Council would get involved in your concern.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Louise. What State are you in? The first question is who owns that property. Usually it will be "common Area" and individual residents are not responsible for it. At least you should not be.Your documents will spell out what is or is not common area.

If you cannot find that in the documents, then you will have to go to your "planning and developement' dept for your county. They should have the original Platt or plot map, whichever they call it.

No change is called an amendment unless it goes thru a vote of the entire community and is called "an amendment to your CC&Rs, Articles of Incorp., or ByLaws. The Board has the rights and ability to rewrite Rules and Regs but what you have described does not fall under Rules and Regs heading.

And lastly, $100.00 per day? I'll bet you my laptop that this is illegal according to your state as being extremely excessive. Look up fining in your State Statutes under H.O.A.s. I don't know your state or it would have been included in this response.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Vince,
In SC the most open forum a resident has is the County Council. Sure they will shy away from getting involved but they will offer advice or who to talk to. SC HOA and condo laws are woeful and need an overhaul. The more people go to counnty council about HOA problems the more "face" time you get and sooner or later there will be action by the legislature. In SC make as big a noise as you can and get their attention.

LouiseH1,
Go to Zoning office at the court house, taake you latest tax bill, ask them to let you look at Master plan for you property. They should have the specific information you need. Be sure to check you documents and declaration and see what kind of Association you have, I think you are in a little trouble if your Board would conceive something like this and have no supporting documentation that specii9ess this feature. Even if they do, they have over steped their authority if that ground is common ground. It is possible it might be deeded to individual properties, and if that is the case, then you have people treaspassing all over the place. If all fails, get up some support and legally change an area around the pond to common ground.
I hope the President does not have his nose out of joint because he doesn't back or face a pond. A pond should be treated as something that enhances property values. incidently, who care for the pond?

LouiseH1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Donna,

We are in South Carolina. This is a single family home development.
Our development went through 3 developers before finally being completed. The pond areas are actually storm water retention ponds. Due to legal mix ups the ponds have just been turned over to the HOA. When this happened, residents started getting letters about the shrubbery. No, residents did not plant anything along these areas...probably by the first developer around six years ago.

I will look into the State Stautues regarding fines.

Thanks for this information.

Louise1

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Louise,
You are very welcome. Many times these developers pass the buck from one to another so that they don't have to spend money. The ponds, because of their function, are definitely, "common property" and financially the responsibility of the Association, not the individual owners. Get together with every owner who has gotten a fine and call you State Attorney General. Those guys are awesome in this kind of abuse.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Donna,
You are always so good about being on target with your advice, I hesitate to add this. The States Attorney General has taken the position that in SC all proplems concerning HOA's and their actions are outside the control of the AG's office. That is what I was told by his office. I would appreciate if you find any help there to let me know. The AG office probably has interest if any crimes are committed, but if you pursue that avenue yopu are prrobably going to hurt in the long run. IMFO. SC won't even offer to explain the State Statute as far as offering a legal opinion, nor will they send you written documentation of their position.
It appears that my posting about SC is not reaching too many people.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

I just came back from the S.C. government web site. Even "Google" cannot find your H.O.A.laws. If someone can help me find that (the statutes pertaining to H.O.A. control), I will do some research for you all. But the real issue here was the amount of fining that the assoc. was giving out at $100.00 per day , I know is not okay with your state.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

DonnaS

I googled SC HOA.
I believe you can find it from there.
Let me know and I will get you the Statute.
Mine is a Condo so different but I believe they are all together.

SC doesn't seem to want to take an active interest as far as residents are concerned, but I believe they don't have this problem when it comes to lawyers.

They recently appointed a Mortgage Fraud office but what they want are lawbreakers, and have no mandate to investigate HOA business.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Donna

S.C. Code of Laws Title 27 Chapter 1 General Provisions - www ... - 2 visits - 3:56pmThe unannotated South Carolina Code on the General Assembly's website is now ... (B)(1) No homeowners' association document may preclude the display of one ...
www.scstatehouse.net/code/t27c001.htm - 28k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

South Carolina Judicial Department - OpinionsLeatherman, 309 S.C. 174, 178, 420 S.E.2d 843, 846 (1992). If a statute’s language is plain, unambiguous, and conveys a clear meaning, “the rules of ...
www.judicial.state.sc.us/opinions/displayOpinion.cfm?caseNo=4032 - 34k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

South Carolina Judicial Department - OpinionsThe statute prohibits reassessment in a non-assessment year except in limited circumstances. S.C. Code Ann. § 12-41-120 (1976) ("ut real estate shall be ...
www.judicial.state.sc.us/opinions/displayOpinion.cfm?caseNo=24656 - 29k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
[ More results from www.judicial.state.sc.us ]

Homeowners Association Law Lawyer, Lawyers, Attorney, Attorneys ...Find Homeowners Association Law resources and locate an attorney. ... South Carolina Lawyers, Laws and Resources. - Do I Really Need a Lawyer? ...
real-estate.lawyers.com/homeowners-association-law/ - 55k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

SC Administrative Law Court - DecisionsFurthermore, the Special Valuation Statutes distinguishes between "qualified" and "nonqualified gross receipts" received by the homeowners' association. ...
scalc.net/decisions.aspx?q=4&id=7516 - 68k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

Duncan South Carolina HOA Invasion | HOA Nut HouseDuncan South Carolina HOA Invasion. Submitted by Bill Prince on Sat, ..... For example, in my state, the condo and HOA statutes do not define "emergency" ...
www.hoanewsnetwork.com/media/blog/duncan-south-carolina-hoa-invasion.php - 104k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

Does Ft Mill have code compliance laws? (Fort Mill, Welcome: hoa ...Location: Fort Mill SC. 219 posts, read 57778 times. Reputation: 35 ... so no hoa applies. i asked my builder to look into it since several of the houses ...
www.city-data.com/forum/york-lancaster-counties/113026-does-ft-mill-have-code-compliance.html - 83k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

Gov-State Home pages, Legislatures, Statutes & Law ResourcesLegislatures State Statutes Law Resources Condo Statutes · HOA Statutes ... State Legislature, South Carolina Statutes, South Carolina Law Related sources ...
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Complaint against HOA re: Lender's Questionnaire - FreeAdvice ForumsHave searched the South Carolina statutes online and can not find any law or regulation that requires an HOA to complete a mortgage lender's questionnaire ...
forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=200983 - 104k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

Note HOA Nuthouse

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

ROBERTR1, WILL DO, THANKS

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LouiseH1 on 09/26/2007 12:11 PM
Residents in our HOA have received $100.00 a week fines until they trim the shrubbery along the Pond Banks. The residents along the pond areas have never been told this was their responsbility.

I am taking the advice given and will research the County records. Our committee has considered going to the County Council for some guidance.

When is a change considered an amendment or just an added rule or regulation?
Louise1

Have you thought of calling or e-mailing one of your board members to ask why this is now your responsibility? When this policy was started?

Be polite. If you lived in our neighborhood and called me (I am the President), I would do my best to explain everything to you and do it politely and respectfully.

Have you studied your association documents?

Does your property extend to the edge of the pond? Is the shrubbery on your property? If so, why not trim (or remove) the shrubbery before you have to pay the fine and ask questions later?

Many counties put property information on a county website. Here is one for Dorchester County, SC:

http://gisweb.dorchestercounty.net/imap/

Ron
SC

NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447

Posted:

Look on the county survey map or it may be included in your docs as a description. Pond banks are not the homeowners responsibility, they are the HOA's. Normally there is an easement of sorts from the pond water line to 5 foot or more inland.

Who took care of these shrubs for three years? Did a board member just decide one day to have the homeowners who abut take over the maintenance.

I would not fine these people until the find the true answer to ownership.

If your HOA is considering amending a doc pertaining to these pond-banks it would not have anything to do with a rules®ulation, you would have to change your CC&R's. The change goes to land. That is why it should be in your CC&R's.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Donna,
I don't know how much you got out of the refercences I sent. I was shocked to find there is so little about HOA's but not surprized. It is hard to imagine that all the HOA's in SC have no specific statute I can find. The existence and governance seems to be a mish mash of various part of Titles and chapters. Maybe this is good, I don't know. I have some knowledge of our HOA documents and always thought they were fairly well written. In retrospect I can see a very strong association with the developer that once they are turned over still carries the developer interest in many areas. Crudely, it seems an effort is made by the developer to hold on to any money making venture and turn over to the HOA anything that costs money. I'm not an expert by any means but I am glad to say our Condo has finaly rid ourselves of any agreements with the developer but we do have owners that rent their units thru the developers real estate rental business.
To close, I will say I don't believe SC is the only state to have confusion and problems from the states' position of turn it over to the attorneys for an opinion and go to court with your money to gamble om the judge looking at things the same as the lawyer. Then when it happens again, repeat the exercise,
You smart ladies have added a lot to this site. Not ignoring the men, there is normally good information here but you all are taking the extra step I think and you all seem to be more likely to assert your advice from a conviction of: "Now this is how it is......period. When you do that, anyone responding knows exactly how to react. Jus an opinion.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

RobertR1
NancyD has the most awesome experience, being formerly an attorney but now doing legal stuff for a developer. She quotes the statutes and legal opinions from great expertise.
I, on the other hand , am a lay person with a few years of very hard document work and being available as a rep for our community and a Board member. So I am the person with the "on hands" experience, having worked thru a turnover and rewritting of our entire docs. I think that between Nancy and myself's opinions, we offer a good mix for the Discussion Boards. I thank you for your acknowledgement of our advice.
Donna

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Let's just remember that no one is forced to live in a community governed by covenants and an HOA, POA, or Condo Association. The documents are avaliable to read and study before one makes a purchase and if the prospective purchaser is not willing to live with the powers given to the HOA by these documents, he or she has the oportunity to not purchase the property. Also, the property owner becomes a member of the association and has the power to attend meetings and vote for officers and even run for office in the association.

In most, if not all situations, the HOA is given certain powers and only those powers. An informed owner knows what powers the HOA has and what powers it does not have.

Ron
SC

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NancyD1 on 09/27/2007 4:33 PM
Look on the county survey map or it may be included in your docs as a description. Pond banks are not the homeowners responsibility, they are the HOA's. Normally there is an easement of sorts from the pond water line to 5 foot or more inland.

They may be the homeowner's responsibility. It all depends on the property line. The property may run to the shoreline or even into the pond. The only way to find out is to look at the survey and deed.

Ron
SC

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Ronald.
A couple of comments.
It is true folks are negligent about finding out what they are moving into, no question. But, it is also true when they become a member of the Regime they are entilted to certain expectations and certain certain benefits, whethyer they are HOA experts or not. You will certainly agree that a lot of problems crop up after new residents move in. Maybe the Regimes would benefit from some kind of authority to insure the documents are read and understood. Right now, the only people involved in a settlement do not really have a personal interest in insuring full disclosure means understanding HOA documents. You have to sign the documents and agree, but we both know that don't work. So how do the Regimes fix the problem?

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

RonW,
Do your above comments refer to SC HOA's?

Maybe you could post where the "power given to the HOA Documents" comes from. I am pretty well versed on condos in SC but after digging around some I can't seem to find any State Satutes that enable any power for HOA's. What I did find was bits and pieces of state legislation that explain certain terms applicable to HOA's. Condos are covered by the State Horizontal Property Act. I am unable to find a like statute dealing with HOA's. I do know that the Attorney General of SC conveyed to me by phone that their office considers POA and Condo CCR's to be out of their jurisdications and problems are to be settled by the courts. I did not ask about criminal acts.

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RobertR1 on 09/29/2007 5:43 AM
RonW,
Do your above comments refer to SC HOA's?

Maybe you could post where the "power given to the HOA Documents" comes from. I am pretty well versed on condos in SC but after digging around some I can't seem to find any State Satutes that enable any power for HOA's. What I did find was bits and pieces of state legislation that explain certain terms applicable to HOA's. Condos are covered by the State Horizontal Property Act. I am unable to find a like statute dealing with HOA's. I do know that the Attorney General of SC conveyed to me by phone that their office considers POA and Condo CCR's to be out of their jurisdications and problems are to be settled by the courts. I did not ask about criminal acts.

The "power given to the HOA Documents" is within the documents themselves. They are in effect, a contract between the property owner and the association. Also, in effect, part of the deed to the property.

Ron
SC

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Ronald,
Thanks for your comments. Frankly I am still confused.

In SC a condo regime is governed by the Horizontal Property Act of SC.
Our highest authority. We can not change that Act.

In an HOA, are you saying their is no state authority to govern? You say the power is in the documents. Is there a State Declaration that addresses this? I am confused because if the power is in the documents and the HOA has the right to change their documents, aren't they making laws? Our HOA and our Condo change documents when necessary, the condo does under the power of the Horizontal Property Act. It seems there would have to be an authority that enpowers the HOA, and I can't find it. Actually I think I may have found it but it is still confusing to me. In our Condo, we have a declaration that announces the formation of the condo under the State Condo Act. I read under our HOA documents that the rights are given by the state under a declaration.
I just don't know. I understand there is a contract between the HOA and association. The actions of the HOA are by this agreement and in effect the Homeowner becomes a member of the Corporation with certain right within a corporation, same as Condos. Our condo is under State Coirporation law, is an HOA in SC?

Help Nancy and Donna and any one else.

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RobertR1 on 09/29/2007 9:27 AM
Ronald,
Thanks for your comments. Frankly I am still confused.

In SC a condo regime is governed by the Horizontal Property Act of SC.
Our highest authority. We can not change that Act.

In an HOA, are you saying their is no state authority to govern? You say the power is in the documents. Is there a State Declaration that addresses this? I am confused because if the power is in the documents and the HOA has the right to change their documents, aren't they making laws? Our HOA and our Condo change documents when necessary, the condo does under the power of the Horizontal Property Act. It seems there would have to be an authority that enpowers the HOA, and I can't find it. Actually I think I may have found it but it is still confusing to me. In our Condo, we have a declaration that announces the formation of the condo under the State Condo Act. I read under our HOA documents that the rights are given by the state under a declaration.
I just don't know. I understand there is a contract between the HOA and association. The actions of the HOA are by this agreement and in effect the Homeowner becomes a member of the Corporation with certain right within a corporation, same as Condos. Our condo is under State Coirporation law, is an HOA in SC?

Help Nancy and Donna and any one else.

Federal, State or local law may regulate or invalidate portions of your documents (such as the HOAs ability to ban satellite TV antennas) but in the absence of any such law, the association documents stand.

The association may only change its documents in a manner outlined in the documents. In our case, to change the Declaration of Restrictions and Easements (covenants), 75% of the members must vote to amend the declaration and the vote must be certified by the BOD and the amendment and certification must be filed with the county register of deeds.

Also in our case (an example of CC&Rs vs law), a homeowner felt she could pile trash at the street for pickup 48 hours before the scheduled pickup day because that is what the city ordinance allows. Our Declaration of Restrictions and Easements only allows it to be put out on the day of collection. She received a violation letter and demanded to know why. I had our attorney write an explanation that in the absence of an ordinance invalidating our restriction, the restrictions in the Declaration of Restrictions and Easements are enforceable. She now puts her trash out on the appropriate day.

Ron
SC

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

RobertR1,
Okay, now I have a major headache, looking for H.O.A. laws in S.C. I cannot find anything except
Condo Laws. Title 27, Property & Conveyances.
Chapter 31, Horizontal Property Act

Is it possible that they don't address H.O.A s? There are some items in there that are what Florida has separated especially for HOA's but that is as much as I could find. Any other help?

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

I forgot to add this. YES, indeed, maybe S.C. just hasn't addressed them (HOA's). Yes, the Federal laws are the governing factor in many H.O.A. issues but they are not including how to run an association, election and Board issues, Budget and enforcement and document formation, With the exception of fair housing act, flags, satellite (fcc rules), the individual states should have laws and statutes.Does not seem that S.C has addressed this.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

To Ronald, Nancy and Donna.

If you like please e-mail me at [email protected].

I would like to show you the Governing Documents of a HOA in SC. It is in the Public Domain but I guess I should not post it here.

It jusst may be as you say Donna and they are just not there in a form we would recognize as these documents are written specifically for this ceretain HOA but there is still references to State Authority (vague applications). How do your documents compare Harold?
I hear these documents are being re-written, to what extent I don't know. I also have great confidence that the general manager of this HOA is extremely qualified and capable. This is for my personal interest only.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RonaldW on 09/28/2007 5:17 PM
Let's just remember that no one is forced to live in a community governed by covenants and an HOA, POA, or Condo Association. The documents are avaliable to read and study before one makes a purchase and if the prospective purchaser is not willing to live with the powers given to the HOA by these documents, he or she has the oportunity to not purchase the property. Also, the property owner becomes a member of the association and has the power to attend meetings and vote for officers and even run for office in the association.

In most, if not all situations, the HOA is given certain powers and only those powers. An informed owner knows what powers the HOA has and what powers it does not have.

Ron its not just condos and HOA's that have this type of problems. I used to live in a small city that dated back to the 1800's no HOA; our property ended at the sidewalk; which we as homeowners were responsible to replace if they became damaged and clear of snow. On the other side of the sidewalk was a strip of land approx 8 foot wide before the street. Most of the streets did not have curbs and this was the so called parking strip even though this was not our property the city required the homeowner to maintain it or they would cut it and bill the homeowner. One creative soul bless his heart decided that if he was responsible he could do as he wanted and plowed it up in front of his house and planted corn; the city was not amused and the next year it was back as grass.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GlenL on 09/29/2007 4:11 PM
Posted By RonaldW on 09/28/2007 5:17 PM
Let's just remember that no one is forced to live in a community governed by covenants and an HOA, POA, or Condo Association. The documents are avaliable to read and study before one makes a purchase and if the prospective purchaser is not willing to live with the powers given to the HOA by these documents, he or she has the oportunity to not purchase the property. Also, the property owner becomes a member of the association and has the power to attend meetings and vote for officers and even run for office in the association.

In most, if not all situations, the HOA is given certain powers and only those powers. An informed owner knows what powers the HOA has and what powers it does not have.

I used to live in one also. The difference is that cities can change laws or pass new ones without getting 75% (or whatever) of the owners to approve them. So can counties, states, and the federal government.

Ron
SC

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LouiseH1 on 09/26/2007 4:52 PM
Donna,

We are in South Carolina. This is a single family home development.
Our development went through 3 developers before finally being completed. The pond areas are actually storm water retention ponds. Due to legal mix ups the ponds have just been turned over to the HOA. When this happened, residents started getting letters about the shrubbery. No, residents did not plant anything along these areas...probably by the first developer around six years ago.

I will look into the State Stautues regarding fines.

Thanks for this information.

Louise1

But have you asked the BOD why they feel you should be trimming the shrubs if they are on association property ?

What if they don't like the way you trim them?

What if you dug them up or they just happened to die ?

Ron
SC

NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447

Posted:

RobertR1,

The only reference I could find to laws pertaining to HOA's in SC is the SC Non-Profit Corp Act. The way I found this is through the CAI in SC website.

It seems that SC does not have any laws per se regarding HOA's. In Florida we had FL statute 617 Not for Profit corp. until FL 720, for HOA's, was enacted a few years ago.

In a cursory glance at Title 33 SC non profit it shows that it gives the corp. power under Ultra Vires. This means that under the corporate veil the corporation can go outside of federal, state and local powers. A HOA would be hard pressed to use this but it could happen. The statutes give any non profit that ability.

Non profit statutes are hard to follow for HOA's. You need to have good explainations in your By-Laws and CC&R's to back up the state laws. If you do have any questions and it is not explained in the HOA doc's or the state law, there is nowhere to go.

RobertR1, I now know what you have been through with regards to the state.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Ron,
The act of changing the CC&R's may well be 75%, it probably varies a little. But what happens when you have a large changee of owners that don't like the rules (laws). They change them again, which can't be controlled so that is the way it goes. In a city normally the city council make rules (laws). It takes a political pressure to change them, usually not a vote of city residents. The residents may p-ressure the city council to change or make a law, but that falls under politics, not voting. I also believe, in fact I know, that majority does not rule all the time in condos. A small number of owners having the larger share of the Real Property can out vote a larger njumber of owners. If the vote is apportioned. I cringe every time our president asks for a show of hands to support a board decision.

In a condo, I know for sure there are certain covenants that run with the land for long periods of time and if you are around when the covenant is expiring, you may get a vote, but usually they are just renewed, I wonder if those city covenants requiring a person to manage the property in the middle of the street are actually covenants of the city that run with the land.

NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447

Posted:

Quote:

Louise,

Found It!! Chapter 30, SC 48-39-10, SC Dept. of Health and Environmental Control. It address oceans, lakes and ponds. There is a lot of info you will have to go through but you should find an answer in this statute.

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RobertR1 on 09/29/2007 5:53 PM
Ron,
The act of changing the CC&R's may well be 75%, it probably varies a little. But what happens when you have a large changee of owners that don't like the rules (laws). They change them again, which can't be controlled so that is the way it goes. In a city normally the city council make rules (laws). It takes a political pressure to change them, usually not a vote of city residents. The residents may p-ressure the city council to change or make a law, but that falls under politics, not voting. I also believe, in fact I know, that majority does not rule all the time in condos. A small number of owners having the larger share of the Real Property can out vote a larger njumber of owners. If the vote is apportioned. I cringe every time our president asks for a show of hands to support a board decision.

In a condo, I know for sure there are certain covenants that run with the land for long periods of time and if you are around when the covenant is expiring, you may get a vote, but usually they are just renewed, I wonder if those city covenants requiring a person to manage the property in the middle of the street are actually covenants of the city that run with the land.

If you have been through this you will know that ammending the CC&Rs is about as easy as ammending the US constitution. Many people are afraid of change or just don't care and will either vote not to change them or just not vote at all. We are trying to liberlalize the sections controlling the placing of trash out for collection and the number of cars that may be parked in driveways overnight and even though we will include a stamped envelope for the return of ballots, we expect to end up contacting people in person to get them to vote. Apathy is rampant in many HOAs unless they are very badly run.

Ron
SC

SusanJ3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 61

Posted:

We didn't get the docs when we pruchased. I didn't even get mine until after closing. It isn't that I find the by-laws and CC & R's hard to live by. It is the personalities involved with the HOA and the feeling that they have unbridled power and there is nothing you can do about it. I live in SC, and I am trying to find out if a BoD's refusal to let the isntallation of a patio to remedy a standing water problem means I can go ahead it with it. What is ironic is that just yesterday, cement workers were in the community redoing curbs for the same reason - standing water.

PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347

Posted:

SusanJ3: What you are asking for is an architectural request to add/change the outside area to your unit with a patio. You need to review your documents to learn if there is an established process to go about submitting an architectural request. Also, there may be particulars regarding what the patio can be made of: patio block, resin pavers, wood composite material, cement slab, etc.

If there is not an established procedure for a request, then your Board needs to establish one with appropriate timing for submission, approval/disapproval and if disapproval, state the reason. It is these situations that define a good functioning community whereby, the Board, Committees, residents work together for 'the good of the community' to arrive at solutions to problems and concerns.

It would also be in your best interest to band together with other residents who are dealing with standing water as well, seek the Board as a group and ask them to assist you in addressing the problem.

Standing water can result in poor grading from development of the ground area/s and some ways to remedy this problem are: regrading of the area, add river rock to the low lying area/s, etc. If you find that there are many concerned residents with this drainage problem, perhaps you could contact the developer to see if he will take a look at the grading which he may agree was not done correctly at the start. You may get him on a 'good day' and he may work with you to remedy the area.

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SusanJ3 on 10/02/2007 9:21 AM
We didn't get the docs when we pruchased. I didn't even get mine until after closing. It isn't that I find the by-laws and CC & R's hard to live by. It is the personalities involved with the HOA and the feeling that they have unbridled power and there is nothing you can do about it. I live in SC, and I am trying to find out if a BoD's refusal to let the isntallation of a patio to remedy a standing water problem means I can go ahead it with it. What is ironic is that just yesterday, cement workers were in the community redoing curbs for the same reason - standing water.

Before I made an offer on my home, I demanded the CC&Rs from the realtor. Since she stood to make several thousand dollars from the sale, she found a way to get them to me. My wife and I studied them and decided that we could live within the restrictions and we purchased the home.

If, as you seem to say, the BOD is refusing to let you build a patio, then that does not mean that you can "go ahead with it", quite the opposite. You could be required to remove the patio and restore the area as it was at your expense.

No good will come of you challenging the authority of the HOA. Read and study your association documents to find how to get approval of this project. If they will not approve it, ask to meet with the ACC, ARB, or the BOD and see if you can work out a compromise.

Ron
SC

LouiseH1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Thanks to all for your information. I have been on vacation and I am now reading over the responses.

I agree with Robert that SC nees an overhaul on HOA issues. I am going to recommend that we contact our County Council and legislature. Yes, we all signed to agree to the Covenant, but not to a Board who is still in power because of lack of quorum. A property management company that encourages not to get a quorum so they can stay in power.

It is a slow process, but we are trying to get homeowners involved. Another problem our development has out of 296 homes 96 are investor owned. It is difficult to get these homeowners involved because they do not live here and most are from California and part of investment groups.

SusanJ3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 61

Posted:

Gosh, Louise, is your mgmt. company Benchmark or Chicora? I've heard that logic bandied about at our meetings as well.

LouiseH1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Ron,

The BOD has been unresponsive to any questions regarading their authority. The answers we are getting is "Because we can do it."

If the homeowners dig them up, it will probably cause an erosion problem along the pond area because these shrubs have been there probably for at least 6 years. I don't know why the developer didn't just sod the pond banks.

Louise1

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

LouiseH,
How does a property management firm stop or hinder the members from getting a quorum? Get a board quorum and fire the management company.
Are you saying you mever have an annual meeting? Necessity is the mother of Invention, You have 296 homes and you can't get enough proxies to make a quorum. Make the proxies easy to fill out and return, those that don't respond, have a lawyer draw up a letter explaining their obligations as owners and they signed a contract when they bought the property that they would not harm the associations by there actions. I bet you can do it if you get ten volenteers to work on it. Have a meeting and see what ideas pop up,

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LouiseH1 on 10/06/2007 7:54 PM
Ron,

The BOD has been unresponsive to any questions regarading their authority. The answers we are getting is "Because we can do it."

Can they do it? Read your documents.

As for erosion, yes, it might happen but some folks would rather have that than trim the bushes.

Something is wrong with this entire thread. Missing or inaccurate information.

$100.00 per week fine? I don't think so. And if that were the threat, I wouldn't be posting here, I would be trimming or removing (or killing) the shrubs and/or consulting with an attorney.

Ron
SC

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