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CourtneyS2 (Texas)
Posts: 74
Posted:
We recently had an election. The day of the election there was only one name on the ballot. And that person got the position. The individual didn't even introduce themselves like every other board member previously had done. My position upon starting was vice president. The president resigned before the election time. Does that automatically make me the president now? Normally our management company will make some minor day-to-day decisions with the president. However lately when it comes to minor decisions they're waiting on a response from the entire board instead of the president. There isn't anything in our cc&r that specify each position.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
If in the past, the board recognized or appointed, formally or informally, the president as the go-to person for day-to-day decisions, then I think you should wait until either (1) the board does the same with you; or (2) the board elects another president.

My reasoning is that even day-to-day decisions are corporate decisions that the board, or its appointed representative, makes.
CourtneyS2 (Texas)
Posts: 74
Posted:
Here's an example printing a document in black/white or color.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
You need to look in your bylaws, not the CC&Rs. The bylaws tell you how your association is to be governed.

There you'll find information about the number of board positions, length of terms, how board members select officer positions (president, secretary, etc.), the duties of each, how to deal with unfilled director positions, how frequently the board must meet, etc.

Your management company is doing things correctly by waiting for the entire board to make decisions, rather than just talking to the president.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Typically the vice president runs the meeting if the president isn't available, but he/she doesn't HAVE to become president when the president resigns or is voted out.

You really need to read your Bylaws - that's where you usually find information on how the association is to be run, like how many board members, length of terms, etc. In fact, given your questions, I'm thinking it would be a good idea that ALL OF YOU read it so you'll know what you're doing. Usually, the homeowners elect board members and board members elect officers from among themselves, so if you don't want to be president, say so. You may end up with the position by default, but that can easily be changed later in the year if it's determined you're not good at the job or you decide you don't want it for whatever reason.

The Bylaws should describe what officers do and who they are, e.g. president, vice president, secretary and treasurer. If nothing's written down, what's stopping you from Googling duties of HOA president or whatever, write a position description based on that, and then the board can vote on whether to adopt those descriptions. Better yet, I'd consider asking homeowners to vote on adding those descriptions to your Bylaws so there's no question on what should be done.

You don't describe what type of "minor" decisions the president and property manager made before he resigned, but it's important for board members to be in the loop on what's being done, so that's probably why the property manager is asking for all of you to chime in. Pull out your management agreement and read it so you understand what he/she is supposed to do and then you can discuss under what circumstances the property manager can make a decision (with proper notification to the board), when the president can make an executive decision and everything else can come to the board.

You might also consider checking out the community association website and perhaps purchase some of their handbooks that describe duties of the president, vice president, etc., and use some of those tips along with your documents as a guide on what your descriptions should say. There's also information on best practices like working with a property manager, selecting an association attorney, etc.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CourtneyS2 on 02/21/2020 10:43 AM
Here's an example printing a document in black/white or color.
All documents, or a particular document? If all documents, I can understand management's query. If one document, the manager is dense. On the third hand, dense is the rule for HOA/COA managers (with every rule having exceptions). Keep reading at this forum for some of the malarkey HOA/COA managers pull at times.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Sounds like:

- the members elected a new director
- the Board lost the president which was elected by the directors
- while now irrelevant, the Board now (likely) has only a VP, Treasurer and Secretary
- in order for there to be another President, the Board must elect said President

It is POSSIBLE, your Bylaws have a "fleet up" provision, but most don't.

Do the easy thing - have a Board meeting and elect a new President.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Your bylaws will tell you how long officers serve. Often, it's just one year, which coincides with the election of doctors at the annual meeting. So it's possible, Courtney, that you're not even technically the VP anymore.

How many directors are on your board?

I'm with those who advise having a board meeting to elect officers ASAP.
CourtneyS2 (Texas)
Posts: 74
Posted:
The only thing we have received is the Declaration of CC&Rs. Is the bylaws a separate papers that our management company should have for a community?
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CourtneyS2 on 02/21/2020 11:43 AM
The only thing we have received is the Declaration of CC&Rs. Is the bylaws a separate papers that our management company should have for a community?

I think you should know what an HOA really does. here is a youtube video you should watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3o3bLxD_oE
CourtneyS2 (Texas)
Posts: 74
Posted:
Thank you'll
CourtneyS2 (Texas)
Posts: 74
Posted:
We consist of 3 board members. We just had a board meeting however we didn't elect any new officer position. So I was assuming they automatically bumped me up to president. I'm not sure I will check with our management company.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm sure MarkW's recommended video will be helpful.

But, for now, if your HOA is a corporation, you have bylaws. (But they don't have to be recorded.) Without bylaws, how do you know you're supposed to have 3 board members. The number of directors is specified in the bylaws. Sometimes it's a range, e.g. 3-7.

Without bylaws, how do you know you should have an annual meeting and election?

It's very unlikely that any bylaws will say the VP automatically comes the president if the latter position becomes vacant.

I have seen on this site that occasionally bylaws are a part of the declaration (CC&Rs) or are attached to it. Is there anything in your CC&Rs that talk about the v airs c kinds of meetings, what officers your HOA must have, etc.?
CourtneyS2 (Texas)
Posts: 74
Posted:
It discusses the board of directors send the board shall consist of a minimum of three and a maximum of five members the board shall manage the affairs of the association as specified in this declaration and the bylaws of the association. It discusses the voting Rights. It doesn't say anything about annual meetings. It does talk about annual assessment fees. There's not a breakdown of the different positions for the board of directors.
I even asked if the president needs to sign for certain contracts or even the insurance when it's time to be renewed. I was told that the management company does everything.the management company that we have now is owned by the developer of our neighborhood they were the original management company we didn't change it.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CourtneyS2 on 02/21/2020 12:42 PM
...
I even asked if the president needs to sign for certain contracts or even the insurance when it's time to be renewed. I was told that the management company does everything.the management company that we have now is owned by the developer of our neighborhood they were the original management company we didn't change it.

According to our bylaws, the president signs contracts and whatnot (or the secretary/VP if the president is unavailable). Our manager has never had the authority to sign on the board's behalf.

It's possible that this is a holdover from the days when your association was under developer control and the manager was an agent of the developer. But if you're now under homeowner control, the manager should not be signing the association's legal documents unless your bylaws specifically allow your board to delegate this. But I've never heard of that being the case.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Usually, the Board approves contracts with its vote at a meeting. Then, the president usually has the authority to sign the contracts. With Cathy, I've never heard of an MC having the authority to approve or sign contracts.

Do you know for sure that you're no longer under developer control?

Given the mgmt. co. (MC) is the developer's company, the MC will have a copy of the bylaws, which your CC&Rs refer to. So the bylaws do exist.

Since you have bylaws, you probably are a corporation. If so, TX corporations laws can be helpful. Another important document is your HOA's articles of incorporation. Ask you MC for a copy of them.

I didn't find MarkW's video particularly helpful re: your questions, but there's a list of others on the site and some of them look promising.
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/21/2020 1:28 PM
I didn't find MarkW's video particularly helpful re: your questions, but there's a list of others on the site and some of them look promising.

I generally don't find most of your posts helpful to me.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Courtney

Your "group of 3", the BOD, needs to get together to elect Officers of the Association/Corporation. With a BOD of three I suggest: President, Vice-president/Treasurer, and a Secretary. That should cover it.
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/21/2020 1:28 PM
Usually, the Board approves contracts with its vote at a meeting. Then, the president usually has the authority to sign the contracts. With Cathy, I've never heard of an MC having the authority to approve or sign contracts.

Do you know for sure that you're no longer under developer control?

Given the mgmt. co. (MC) is the developer's company, the MC will have a copy of the bylaws, which your CC&Rs refer to. So the bylaws do exist.

Since you have bylaws, you probably are a corporation. If so, TX corporations laws can be helpful. Another important document is your HOA's articles of incorporation. Ask you MC for a copy of them.

I didn't find MarkW's video particularly helpful re: your questions, but there's a list of others on the site and some of them look promising.

Should I email you first to get your blessing before posting online here?
CourtneyS2 (Texas)
Posts: 74
Posted:
Okay so first I need to ask for a copy of the bylaws?

I requested a copy of any contacts that our Association are currently under. I received some of the contracts not all. None of the contracts have the past President signature on them.

Once I have received a copy of the bylaws then should we meet to discuss positions?

Then we can move forward with letting our MC know we don't give them authorization to sign contracts?

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
MarkW,

You could ask for my blessing.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'd call a meeting right away and elect officers. Why wait?

Are you sure you're not still under developer control?
CourtneyS2 (Texas)
Posts: 74
Posted:
We're no longer under developer control. I will notify MC next week. We actually just had a Board Meeting Tuesday. However our MC at some instances continue to talk like we were under his control. I had to clear that up at the meeting that we were no longer under developer control he agreed. We have been a residential for almost two years.
CourtneyS2 (Texas)
Posts: 74
Posted:
Does the MC have to attend the meeting when we elect officer positions?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CourtneyS2 on 02/21/2020 7:31 PM
Does the MC have to attend the meeting when we elect officer positions?

It depends what his contract says. Typically an HOA will hire a manager to perform a variety of tasks, and the manager's contract will list those tasks. For many HOAs, the manager does attend all board meetings, and may even run the meeting. However, the manager does not vote - all board decisions are made by the board alone.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Our property mgr. (PM) does attend meetings and her biggest contribution is to take minutes. This task is in our contract with the MC. But she also brings us & owners in attendance up to date on various projects, etc.

Why wouldn't you want the PM to attend, Courtney?

MC, by the way, stands for management company. On this forum, the actual person who manages the HOA is called the property manager.
CourtneyS2 (Texas)
Posts: 74
Posted:
I just wasn't sure if the management company needed to attend the meeting. We just had a board meeting this week at our clubhouse so I will check with them and see if we can set another meeting up.
Our management company consists of three workers. They've never specified who our property manager is.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Simple terms in a HOA or any corporation. A President resigns, dies, or loses their position the Vice-President does NOT assume the position of the President. That happens in the GOVERNMENT set up and not CORPORATE structure.

The Vice-President's duties are to cover the meetings if the President can not attend etc... They are their back up for absence but not necessarily have the same duties/responsibilities.

A person from the board would need to be elected to get that position. If no one on the board, then someone would need voted or appointed to the board to create a big enough pool of candidates.

Sometimes I don't know why people seem to post all around the subject when it hasn't changed. The positions are in your By-laws and their definitions. It doesn't say the Vice-President assumes that position or any other when positions are vacant. That IS your position. Which by the way I was one myself my 1st year.

Former HOA President
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Melissa should dust off her governing documents.

Here is the language used in many Bylaws for the duties of a Vice-President.

9.8.2 Vice President The vice president shall act in the place and stead of the president in the event of his absence, inability or refusal to act, and shall exercise and discharge such other duties as may be required of him by the board.

Since the president reigned and is now absent, the VP takes over UNTIL such time as the Board re-shuffles the deck.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
No one said the Vice-President does not step-in. They do NOT hold the position of President. They still have the title of Vice-President. President position has to be elected amongst the board again. It may or may not be the Vice-President.

Thanks for putting words in other people's mouth's again Mark. You nail every time!

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
How about reading the contract between your HOA and this MC, Courtney? That should clear up a lot!
CourtneyS2 (Texas)
Posts: 74
Posted:
Thank you'll so much for your help. You'll had laughing at some of your post.
I would love to give you'll a follow-up. If you'll have any more advice please continue to add to this post.

Thank you!🌞
Have a great weekend!

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