BOD minutes watermarked "DRAFT"

I attended the BOD meeting this month. Loads of trouble getting them to understand how to conduct business. My question is where in Roberts Rules of Order does it state that Meeting minutes are watermarked "DRAFT". They claim (Posted on social media, Facebook)that this has been done since the minutes are not official until they are accepted at the meeting (next Month). I tried to research it on the web, but was unable to find an answer.
Thank you in advance.
Rhoda P.

Robert's Rules are not technologically up to date. The watermark recognizes that draft digital Minutes are now routinely circulated by email prior to approval. As a legal matter, it is important that such minutes do not get mistaken with official minutes.

You won't find that in Roberts Rules. Fact is, though, that they don't beccome official minutes in the corporation's books and records until they're reviewed, considered, and approved by the board at a subsequent meeting. In one respect you should consider yourself lucky because some boards won't release copies of draft minutes and will only provide access (or copies) of the officially approved minutes (which means owners have to wait until they're approved and in a worst-case scenario that can take months).

Anyone see a pattern here or is just me? You keep calling them liars! They try to make changes and you criticize those changes as lies or hiding things. Even if they realize they did something wrong your already on them for "lies". Seriously, back off a little bit.

I don't see anything wrong with being marked as a candidate. You still have to run for the position correct? So you have to be a candidate for consideration.

I just don't see you ever letting this board not be liars and doing something wrong. That is exactly how they view you as well. Maybe stop with the lies comments and maybe listen? These people are NOT professionals! Their only qualification is to be a homeowner. That doesn't take a Yale degree...

I am glad you didn't take me wrong. I sometimes do a "tough love" approach to gauge posters. Some will go extreme and you realize your not dealing with reality...

The CC&R's and Articles of Incorporation are PUBLIC documents. The bylaws may be filed with the CC&R's but not always required. (Depends on states). The Bylaws/RR/ACC documents are then internal HOA documents. So they are responsible for keeping them.

My suggestion that worked for me is to bring the rules to every and each meeting. That way can reference directly from the "rule book". This can help get the board back on track. If they aren't willing to refer to the rules in giving answers then it will show to others what they are dealing with.

Melissa,
I will do just that. Thanks again.

Can you PLEASE tell ALL of us here how bringing YOUR set of Rules and Regulations to a meeting helps in any way in running said meeting?

Rules and Regulations are do's and don't's of what you can and can't with your home and common area.

Mark have you ever been to a HOA meeting? Seriously come common sense here and follow the bouncing ball. You bring the CC&R's, By-laws, ACC (if exist), and Articles of incorporation so you can give PROPER answers. The Articles provide the meeting requirements and position definitions. Someone asks "What does the Secretary do?" OPEN up the document and refer to that paragraph.

I like to tell board members to bring the rules to each and every meeting to reference them for many things. Plus by having them at the meeting you know the board know and follow the rules. They are not "winging" it. It also encourages people to get a copy of the rules themselves. One of the BIGGEST questions or issues a HOA has is distribution of rules.

So don't understand why someone would NOT bring a set of the rules to their meetings. People want to complain their HOA board doesn't "follow the rules". What better way than live by example with having them at hand?

Have I ever been to an HOA meeting you ask?

Let's see in 10 years managing, probably 144 each year including annual meetings. I think that add up to about 1440, give or take. In all those years, I can't honestly say I ever saw a Board member with any governing docs with them at a meeting. The only thing they had was their board packet and if I hadn't prepared it, it would never gotten done. But hey, that's why they paid me the big bucks.

You should check around some time, but the Articles don't provide meeting requirement and position definitions, that is found in the Bylaws. The Articles of Incorporation forms the corporation and list the name of the original directors. It can state how many classes of voting memberships and what the corporation is engaged in.

How many times has the rules come up in a board meeting? I could probably could on two hands out of over 1400 meetings.

What's the Secretary do? I've been trying to figure that out for a very long time.

Honestly I think whomever is printing the document is just adding the watermark option when printing out. They want to make sure it does not come across as official notes of the HOA.

My question was: If this process is in RR, where is it stated?

The Board has documented/approved so many improper steps that violate our By-Laws, I just like to think they got this one right. I am always ready to stand corrected add to my understanding. I have nothing against it being posted a draft if that is indeed a acceptable practice. With the slew of errors they made in the minutes, I am anxious to see the amended, approved copy. Like I stated, I attended the meeting, audio taped (so did they) and they did NOT record the true happenings. There are also a couple of contradictions that are so obvious.

I sent them numerous emails explaining my desire to be appointed to the ACC. They made up a rule and designed a Candidate Form just for me. Our By-Laws say volunteers are "appointed" by the board. They are not and never will be candidates. Two other homeowners serving on other committees were not required to sign it. (not recoded in the minutes)

Honestly, I just want to clean up my neighborhood, and make walking the sidewalks safe. Having served on the Board in the past, many of my neighbors share their thoughts and concerns on a weekly bases. Two have tripped and one fell. My Husband, sister and I have all had similar experiences. After asking the chairman (only sole committee member) on the ACC to contact the homeowner who never edges or cleans up the palms dropping, he said, "I'll go knock on their door if that will make you happy. Rhoda!" And there you have it, I just wanted to make a real difference.

It is clear they have no intentions of appointing me! And that is personal! And Wrong!
Leaving my home of 32 years is the only real solution. Got to get out before property values drop any lower here. That ought to make them happy. Standing down for now.

It may be personal, but it's not wrong. No homeowner has a right to be appointed to a committee - boards typically can appoint whomever they want. And one reasonable choice is to only appoint people who do not have an ongoing, antagonistic relationship with the other board members.

Maybe the board members are a bunch of duffers and the would-be committee member is the lone voice of reason. Maybe the board knows what it's doing and the would-be committee member thinks he/she knows better. From the outside these two situations look the same. Doesn't matter. The board is accountable for the actions of the committee and should choose people they can work with.

Reminds me of a comment made by a former colleague who'd just let go a difficult employees: "Yes, he had skills, but I wasn't willing to pay the price I had to pay in order to get those skills. Other people are equally good and don't have all the personal baggage."

Thank you Cathy.

It just would be nice to be treated equally, since I really have proven to play well with other. If wrongdoing isn't acknowledged, and behavior isn't corrected then it is just "wrong". Keep Reminding myself we are all adults, no room for bullies.

Like I posted before, you don't have all the facts, so I would tend to agree completely with you. The paper trail they have left is all the proof anyone needs to reach the same conclusion I have expressed in this forum.

Time for a legal team to set things straight. Even me!

Thank you all

Former President of HOA

Rhoda,

Referring to members of your board as liars seems to be counter to your assessment that you play well with others ... can you help us understand?

My sense is that you are emotionally involved ... this usually works against good management ... perhaps take a step back and look for ways to work with the Board?

The only thing Minutes need to show is who was there and the result of any votes taken. Anything else is chit chat and subject to the writer's slanting.

I do say some general comments should be made such the BOD discussed replacing the back gate. The BOD discussed taking bids on painting the clubhouse, etc, but nothing more added.

Minutes are not meant to be word for word. If one wants to know more, then attend the BOD Meetings.