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ShaunF (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
In Bartram Park Preserve a few of us believe that we should get a basketball court (with lights so we can play when sun starts to go down), in replace of the soccer field. It would be a great amenity to bring the neighborhood kids together and to keep the kids that have basketball hoops off the road if they want to play basketball. It might even make the neighborhood look prettier as some people might get rid of their basketball hoops from their house.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Okay. So why come to us? Read your rules and go to your HOA board for approval. There's going to be costs involved. So be prepared for a special assessment.

Former HOA President
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Unless REALLY separated from ALL housing, noise will be a major issue if there are lights.

I’m ok with b-ball courts, but NOT at night.
ShaunF (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Well I came here because I don’t really know where to go. I was hoping I could get some guidance instead of a rude reply but okay.
ShaunF (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
And don’t worry I know about the costs. It seems to go up even without improvements sometimes anyways lol.
ShaunF (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Yes the soccer field is quite a good distance from the houses, but I thought the lights would be a good idea because of daylight saving and how the sun goes down at 6 sometimes. My friends neighbor hood has a basketball court with lights but the have a specific time where they have to leave. And it seems to work effectively because I’ve never stayed past the desired time.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Shaun,

I appreciate you following the rules, but ...

Pretty easy to have lighting automated so could set to limit and shutoff at 6 or 7 pm.
ShaunF (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
And btw it’s a public basketball court if you couldn’t tell so it’s for the whole neighborhood to use which is why I came here, I can’t just build it by myself on a property I don’t own. Like am I not allowed to come here for assistance, I’ve been to 3 hoa sites and I still don’t know which one I make the suggestion to.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Public usually means owned by municipal authority if some sort.

If owned by the HOA, it is not public.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Don't know where to go? You do have a board of directors, don't you? That's where you start - you and like minded people to go the next board meeting, speak your piece and go from there. If I were on the board, is suggest a homeowner poll to see what people think of the idea and maybe have an advisory committee explore the idea in depth to see the pros and cons, then make recommendations to the board.

If you and your friends want a field, you should consider possible objection and how to address them, like the noise, maintenance costs, safeguarding the area from tresspassers, etc. Get to work and good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ShaunF (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Yeah having the lights turn off automatically would be a great idea. People do need their quiet time at night, but at the same time daylight savings kind of interrupts mid-day activity aswell so that would be a great middle ground agreement. But I meant public as in the neighborhood, my bad.
ShaunF (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Yes I have a few good ideas to keep trespassers out, but I was told that there was a website where I can suggest it. I’m sorry if I interrupted this site with an unnecessary convo, it’s just that this is my first time doing this. Thanks for letting me know. Do you know where I can find the date to the next board meetings? I assume it would ask for where I live first, but where may I find the info?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
No, it's not an unnecessary conversation - ask whatever question you have. That said sometimes I think people come to the site with questions they probably didn't need to ask if they would only stop a moment and think the thing through.

To wit, you say you don't know where to go to find the date of the next board meeting. Did you try asking your neighbors? Or the property managwr? Don't know who that is? Where do you send your assessments- start there.

In fact I get the feeling you don't know much about how your community is run - start going to a few board meeting and pay attention to what's being said. Introduce yourself to the board members and perhaps offer to spearhead a project of assisting them with research - this soccer field would be a great way to begin.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ShaunF on 02/16/2020 4:35 AM
In Bartram Park Preserve a few of us believe that we should get a basketball court (with lights so we can play when sun starts to go down), in replace of the soccer field.
Go to https://bartrampark.com/neighborhood-homeowners-associations-and-management-companies/ . At the latter site you can confirm that your community is a HOA. The site also provides the name, email address and phone number for your community's HOA. Importantly, it appears that this HOA is still under developer control. You folks can get together and write a thoughtful letter to the manager, asking for a basketball court; emphasizing how you think this will add to property values; and requesting that the letter be forwarded to the "board" (meaning the developer, more or less). But I would not get my hopes up. Also in the vein of what George and Shelia suggested regarding noise, nationwide disputes over the noise from basketball playing have arisen fairly often and have landed in court. I for one think a basketball court would subtract from the value of a home.
ShaunF (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Yeah I might just use my next door neighbor app to ask that. But I’ve been back and forth on many hoa sites and apps to try and get help because I’m really new to this as I’m a really young man. But I appreciate the ones who’s been giving me guidance rather than rejecting me and not giving me advice.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ShaunF on 02/16/2020 8:28 AM
Yeah I might just use my next door neighbor app to ask that.
Why not just use the email address for the HOA's manager given at the site linked above?
ShaunF (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Thank you, that sounds like a good idea. But in my opinion I used to stay outside just as late outside of my house playing basketball as I would if we just had a basketball court. And believe it or not, almost every other home in my neighborhood has a hoop so it would make sense to add a basketball court and then regulate the basketball hoops being outside the house which will make each individual house look prettier. And on top of all that it increases safety for the little kids who play basketball on the street where they are less prone to dangerous drivers on the road, if I explained that well enough.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Yup. When I moved to my community, there was and old basketball hoop near my unit . I was told the association installed it several years earlier for the residents, but neighbors came in and used it to the point people were there making noise all night and causing parking issues. There were also a few fights that led to police being called. When the net went down, it was thought that would resolve the problem - it did help, but not much, so down went the pole.

However, the cement pad was still there, so one resident bought a portable hoop and her roll it out for his kids. Sometimes he or the kids would leave it out overnight, thus causing problems all over wgain. In the end the board decided to tear down the pad, as it was already an eyesore (because people sprayed graffiti on it). Needless to say, it, like our pool isn't missed.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ShaunF (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Thank you, that sounds like a good idea. But in my opinion I used to stay outside just as late outside of my house playing basketball as I would if we just had a basketball court. And believe it or not, almost every other home in my neighborhood has a hoop so it would make sense to add a basketball court and then regulate the basketball hoops being outside the house which will make each individual house look prettier. And on top of all that it increases safety for the little kids who play basketball on the street where they are less prone to dangerous drivers on the road, if I explained that well enough.
ShaunF (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
I meant use the app to create a letter to the manager or who ever is in charge of operations of my neighborhood.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ShaunF on 02/16/2020 8:33 AM
Thank you, that sounds like a good idea. But in my opinion I used to stay outside just as late outside of my house playing basketball as I would if we just had a basketball court. And believe it or not, almost every other home in my neighborhood has a hoop so it would make sense to add a basketball court and then regulate the basketball hoops being outside the house which will make each individual house look prettier. And on top of all that it increases safety for the little kids who play basketball on the street where they are less prone to dangerous drivers on the road, if I explained that well enough.
For what it is worth, I think your points are not bad at all. On the other hand, Shelia's rebuttal is also compelling. I suppose if the court is sufficiently far from homes, maybe the developer will consider your group's suggestion. (And do get a group together to sign a formal letter to the board. The more signers the better.) If the developer gets serious about your suggestion, do realize the developer will be within its rights to raise the HOA assessment some.

I still advise not getting your hopes up. On the other hand the education you get in learning how HOAs operate may be well worth it. Down the road, the HOA will be turned over to owner control. Whence installation of a basketball court will require an amendment to the HOA Declaration. Once under owner control, amendments to the Declaration are typically quite hard to achieve.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Shaun,

We understand you are advocating for an HOA b ball court.

But, you perhaps have not fully captured the concerns this would generate. Further, the idea of tying the HOA b ball court with a modification of your governing docs is problematic.

What do your CCRs say about b ball goals at houses? Restrictions? Approvals by your Architectural control group? What percentage of votes by the membership required to modify or amend your CCRs?

Back to building the court, etc ... is the cost approvable by your Board, or does it require a vote by membership - and, at what percentage? Would it require a special assessment?

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ShaunF on 02/16/2020 8:37 AM
I meant use the app to create a letter to the manager or who ever is in charge of operations of my neighborhood.
... And gathering signatures of owners to sign your letter? Thanks for reminding me to get hip on the technological lingo of the 21st century.
ShaunF (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Well I think if we fences up the basketball court and make it to where you can only enter with our amenity key it may keep trespassers out, and I think most fights are cause by outsiders from the neighborhood, I might be wrong but I think if we all put effort and care into the basketball hoop it will stay in a nice condition. Just like all the other amenities in my neighborhood they eventually wear and tear so it just takes a little bit of maintenance. And if the lights turn off at a set time no one will really stay outside without light. In fact my neighborhood doesn’t have an issue with following the rules. For the most part the people in my neighborhood are really compliant. Everyone respects the pool and gym closing time. No one goes there past the allowed time so hopefully it would be the same with the basketball court.
ShaunF (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
lol. I mean I have a few people who agreed with me on next door neighbor to try and see if this is a possibility.
ShaunF (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Yes of course, if it doesn’t happen it doesn’t happen, for all in all I don’t own the neighborhood therefore I can’t control what is done with it, I just maybe thought it would be worth a try. I would just love the convenience of playing basketball in my own neighborhood. I have deep love for the neighborhood I live in and the people who live there with me, so I thought it would be fun to bring everyone else closer together with a sport that lots of people enjoy.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ShaunF on 02/16/2020 8:43 AM
Just like all the other amenities in my neighborhood they eventually wear and tear so it just takes a little bit of maintenance.
Ask the HOA to fine those somb-tches who hang off the basketball hoop, bending it. I think documenting the latter is the whole raison d'etre for android phones. I figure these hoop-hangers are programmed to think their mother is going to pick up after the messes they create. Thankfully all-volunteer HOA boards have no such interest in enabling bad behavior.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I wasn't being sarcastic in my response. The simple fact is you go to the board and your fellow neighbors. This is a HUGE change that many many things have to be approved and costs factored in. Plus many HOA documents forbid basketball goals in them.

I've done a similar project before. It never turned out what you think it will in your mind's eye. The reality and results aren't necessarily your intent or what is. You have to gather support from your fellow membership. Once you get that support, you then go to the board for the idea approval for funds. Plus making sure the rules don't need to be changed to accommodate this becoming a basketball area.

This project isn't as simple as "Let's change a soccer field to a basketball court". Rules may need to be re-written, neighbors around the area have to be notified, majority vote made to agree, board approving the venture, and someone willing to volunteer to make the project happen.

Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
One other item:

If this HOA is still under developer control, then it's likely that the community was platted without a basketball court and that the Developer would have to jump through at least a few legal and paperwork hoops to make this change. He would have to be convinced that this new amenity would make the community more attractive to buyers, thus making it worth his while to jump through the hoops.

If you want this court, you don't just need to convince some neighbors - you're up against market research that has told the Developer that it is not a particularly desirable amenity for this particular location and the segment of the buying public that he's targeting. Sounds like an uphill battle to me.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I won't say it's a complete uphill battle. Just think it will be a learning opportunity for Shaun to experience. He doesn't sound like he knows much about how a HOA works. It doesn't mean this project can't be done. Just need to get more involved in your HOA to understand all the multi-facets it is.

Don't want to discourage someone from taking on such a project. If it is worth it, it will happen with hard work, sweat, and not doubt tears/fears. Just need to understand you can dream big in a HOA but reality usually steps in. Fencing? Maintenance? materials? Interest? Unwanted guests? Rules? All of this factors in...

Will say that basketball goals have ruined a many of HOA's. It's akin to someone wanting to put in a flagpole...

Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I agree it's a good learning experience. :-)

Another thing I would think about as a board member: it's much easier to re-purpose an open field than a basketball court (or tennis courts or other amenities that are designed for one thing only). It's usually smart to choose the path that gives you the most options in the future (Cathy's Rules for Life #37). :-)

The board always has to look down the road at what will happen if an amenity just sits there unused and sucks up maintenance and insurance dollars. So re-purposing is always going to be a possibility, even if something gets a lot of use right now.
ShaunF (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Yeah I mean all amenities will bring an undesirable trait, but it’s how we act on it. In my neighborhood we have a dog park, at first it was just a normal fence, but now it has a code that is exclusive to home owners, now the dog park has less dog traffic and more space for the people who live there. And maybe a basketball court may not be the most desirable to an hoa, but it certainly is to a lot of people in the neighborhood, including children. But the soccer field sits where with two soccer goals, and I have never seen someone out there actually playing soccer. It has a park next to it as well, but we have two parks and people perder going to the first one that was built. Not saying there is nothing wrong I just thought that they didn’t put much though into the actual neighborhoods desires. Maybe a tennis court would even be better than a soccer field, maybe even a basketball court in some cases, but at least it would be an amenity that people use. I just really think the soccer field is a waste of space for where it could’ve been an amazing and useful amenity instead. I’m fact there is even two open fields in my neighborhood, just one so happens to have soccer goals.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Why does it have to be "converted"? Our HOA we had a basketball goal on the grass in an open area next to the pool/clubhouse. It never got used but it was there. We didn't have any playground equipment. Just a little empty space with 1 goal.

It's a long story but we had to remove a basketball goal from an owner's drive way. (It was pretty much the neighborhood basketball goal). I had it moved to the area near the other goal that existed. That way we could have an actual "court" set up. It didn't quite work out because 1 was portable and the other was in the ground. Plus it was all on grass.

So why can't you all get some portable goals and set them up? Why does it have to be a full on court? Seems can make that soccer field multi-use area for other events. Maybe even tennis net? It seems like it's more of an open field that other activities can be set up for. They make plenty of portable play equipment. Can store it in a shed with a code.

Don't try to reinvent the wheel here. Try working with the existing one.

Former HOA President
ShaunF (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
I suppose that wouldn’t be a bad idea, but I’d rather play on a concrete basketball court. And like all my reasons above is why. Maybe they could just put it in the other extra space, I guess that would be something that would be talked out with the HOA director, but I just thought that it would be a constantly used amenity. And if it need money to be constantly fixed and maintained so be it, but what is the use in an amenity if no one is using it, it would bring the neighborhood joy to spend a little bit more money for maintenance for something that is actually used, versus how much we are paying now for something that is never even touched. You know what I mean. The reasons to it are endless, at least in my opinion, but I, and a plenty others would love to see one be put up.

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