Ramification of not following Robert's Rules

RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550

Posted:

A POA held its first meeting with a new Board. It was its first meeting after a recent annual general meeting. One of the first things done was elect new officers. The new President then said the Board would not be using Robert's Rules. No motion to do that. No vote. He just said that none of the Board meetings would follow Robert's Rules. Since he only made that decision, I would assume Robert's rules is still in effect anyway but he would likely shout down director trying to use them to bring order to a meeting.

Anyone know what the ramifications of this are?

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Roger, do your HOA's Bylaws require the use of Robert's Rules?

RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 02/06/2020 6:58 AM
Roger, do your HOA's Bylaws require the use of Robert's Rules?

I doubt it but they are short, I'll read them now.

DeidreB (Virginia)
Posts: 113

Posted:

In my experience, size matters in terms of meeting formality. A tiny HOA would have a hard time following a very formal meeting procedure. On the other had, a larger HOA may need to be more formal in its meeting conduct.

Also, for any meeting, using basic parliamentary procedure which includes following the agenda and letting people have their say is important. Rigid application of a rule book has never been key to effective meetings in any association I have been a member of or board member of. Following basic parliamentary procedure has been.

What I see as key elements of board and association meetings are:

1. Notice sent out to all with agenda in accordance with state law and By Laws.
2. Attendance rosters properly reflecting attendance.
3. Calling the meeting to order. Recognize a quorum if present and acknowledge proof of notice and offer an opportunity to waive reading of previous meeting minutes.
4. Explaining to all how motions will be made and seconded and then sticking to it (i.e.. explain the way to be heard and the way to proceed from item to item). Make this simple.
5. Following the agenda. Refraining from doing business not on the agenda.
6 Having an open forum (usually required).
8. Closing the meeting.
9. Preparing and then sending or posting good meeting minutes in a timely fashion.

I have heard new Presidents say we are not going to follow Robert's Rule of Orders. In those cases, they also stated how they would follow parliamentary procedure. I always took their statement as way to fend off meeting procedure nuts who interrupt meetings to call out minor discrepancies with the Robert's booklet they have in their pocket.

And of course check your By Laws..... if Roberts is directed, remember Roberts is basically just a particular brand of Parliamentary procedure.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

So, Roger, after all your posts, you haven’t read your Bylaws?

RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 02/06/2020 6:58 AM
Roger, do your HOA's Bylaws require the use of Robert's Rules?

Confirmed. No.

RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GeorgeS21 on 02/06/2020 7:54 AM
So, Roger, after all your posts, you haven’t read your Bylaws?

Your question entertains hostility in my opinion but to answer it: read, not memorized.

RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GeorgeS21 on 02/06/2020 7:54 AM
So, Roger, after all your posts, you haven’t read your Bylaws?

Your question entertains hostility in my opinion but to answer it: read, not memorized.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

There is no statute requiring use of Robert’s Rules of Order. What’s important is that there’s decency and order to the proceedings so no one leaves the meeting wondering “what the hell was that?’ or “there went 2 hours of my time that I’ll never get back!”

Effective meetings boil down to: (1) following an agenda so you can cover the major items that need to be discussed (2) a voting method board members use to made decision (it can be as simple as asking for a show of hands), and (3) someone taking notes to summarize what was discussed and what decisions were made. This is not about repeating everything everyone said, but the summary should be complete and accurate like: the board discussed bids from three landscaping companies. A motion and seconded was made to accept the bid from X company. The motion passed.

In the end, whatever happened in the meeting should be reflected in the minutes as those are legal documents reflecting official actions of the association. You should be able to read them and know whate, when and why something happened. Surely, you've seen enough in your life to know what can happen (or not) due to a disorganized meeting, haven't you?

Even though people may not use all of Roberts’s Rules of Order, most use elements of it, and there are a number of discussions all over this website and the Internet about running effective meetings. That’s the ultimate goal, so your main issue should be whether the presiding officer (usually the president) has some idea of how to move through the agenda without people interrupting, misbehaving, and so on. If that meeting you attended where people talked and talked, but nothing got done, you may want to make some suggestions on how to organize them to maximize everyone’s time.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Roger

With you recent posts one wonders if you are not on a witch hunt?

RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 02/06/2020 8:19 AM
There is no statute requiring use of Robert’s Rules of Order. What’s important is that there’s decency and order to the proceedings so no one leaves the meeting wondering “what the hell was that?’ or “there went 2 hours of my time that I’ll never get back!”

Effective meetings boil down to: (1) following an agenda so you can cover the major items that need to be discussed (2) a voting method board members use to made decision (it can be as simple as asking for a show of hands), and (3) someone taking notes to summarize what was discussed and what decisions were made. This is not about repeating everything everyone said, but the summary should be complete and accurate like: the board discussed bids from three landscaping companies. A motion and seconded was made to accept the bid from X company. The motion passed.

This is some of the problem. I read/scanned over the minutes for this Association back to the 1980s searching for something. While style of minutes changed from Secretary to Secretary, the minutes for most meetings, over decades, of this Association were easy to read because they were succinct and written as you advised above. Starting last year, when a series of problems started with two or more Board directors, including the Secretary, likely being driven by personal motives, the new Treasurer's minutes are verbose and much harder to follow as far as reading them to determine what took place at a meeting.

RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RogerJ1 on 02/06/2020 8:40 AM

Posted By SheliaH on 02/06/2020 8:19 AM
There is no statute requiring use of Robert’s Rules of Order. What’s important is that there’s decency and order to the proceedings so no one leaves the meeting wondering “what the hell was that?’ or “there went 2 hours of my time that I’ll never get back!”

Effective meetings boil down to: (1) following an agenda so you can cover the major items that need to be discussed (2) a voting method board members use to made decision (it can be as simple as asking for a show of hands), and (3) someone taking notes to summarize what was discussed and what decisions were made. This is not about repeating everything everyone said, but the summary should be complete and accurate like: the board discussed bids from three landscaping companies. A motion and seconded was made to accept the bid from X company. The motion passed.

This is some of the problem. I read/scanned over the minutes for this Association back to the 1980s searching for something. While style of minutes changed from Secretary to Secretary, the minutes for most meetings, over decades, of this Association were easy to read because they were succinct and written as you advised above. Starting last year, when a series of problems started with two or more Board directors, including the Secretary, likely being driven by personal motives, the new Treasurer's minutes are verbose and much harder to follow as far as reading them to determine what took place at a meeting.

Sorry I meant new Secretary's minutes, not Treasurer's in the quoted text above.

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RogerJ1 on 02/06/2020 8:41 AM

Posted By RogerJ1 on 02/06/2020 8:40 AM

Posted By SheliaH on 02/06/2020 8:19 AM
There is no statute requiring use of Robert’s Rules of Order. What’s important is that there’s decency and order to the proceedings so no one leaves the meeting wondering “what the hell was that?’ or “there went 2 hours of my time that I’ll never get back!”

Effective meetings boil down to: (1) following an agenda so you can cover the major items that need to be discussed (2) a voting method board members use to made decision (it can be as simple as asking for a show of hands), and (3) someone taking notes to summarize what was discussed and what decisions were made. This is not about repeating everything everyone said, but the summary should be complete and accurate like: the board discussed bids from three landscaping companies. A motion and seconded was made to accept the bid from X company. The motion passed.

This is some of the problem. I read/scanned over the minutes for this Association back to the 1980s searching for something. While style of minutes changed from Secretary to Secretary, the minutes for most meetings, over decades, of this Association were easy to read because they were succinct and written as you advised above. Starting last year, when a series of problems started with two or more Board directors, including the Secretary, likely being driven by personal motives, the new Treasurer's minutes are verbose and much harder to follow as far as reading them to determine what took place at a meeting.

Sorry I meant new Secretary's minutes, not Treasurer's in the quoted text above.

You went back over minutes from 40 years ago. You really, really, really need to find a hobby.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

In that case, it would appear the secretary needs some guidance on how to prepare and present meeting minutes and a treasurer’s report. You don’t need Robert’s Rules of Order for that – there’s lots of information around this website and the Internet on how to do that.

I don’t know how well you know the secretary, but you might want to talk to him or her about the minutes and note some of them have been a little hard to follow. There are minute templates in Word that could be used to organize the content.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RogerJ1 on 02/06/2020 6:54 AM
A POA held its first meeting with a new Board. It was its first meeting after a recent annual general meeting. One of the first things done was elect new officers. The new President then said the Board would not be using Robert's Rules. No motion to do that. No vote. He just said that none of the Board meetings would follow Robert's Rules. Since he only made that decision, I would assume Robert's rules is still in effect anyway but he would likely shout down director trying to use them to bring order to a meeting.

Anyone know what the ramifications of this are?

You indicated your governing documents do not require use of Robert's Rules. The President "presides" over meetings. I think he legally gets to call the shots here as to how meetings are run.

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

Roger is not a member of the association he is questioning. Exactly what change can this person really effect, or should be able to effect.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Roger posted he has Power-of-Attorney for his mother. His mother is an owner in the HOA.

RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 02/06/2020 9:19 AM
Roger posted he has Power-of-Attorney for his mother. His mother is an owner in the HOA.

I also have a letter giving me agents rights to handle HOA matters in case questioned, as well as a general power attorney.

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 02/06/2020 9:19 AM
Roger posted he has Power-of-Attorney for his mother. His mother is an owner in the HOA.

So he says