A service of:
Community123.com
Professional websites for HOAs & condos, since 2004
🎁 1st year FREE for HOATalk members! →
Return to Topics List

Duplex neighbor wants to build exclusive use raised deck in our small common area backyard

Started by KennyA15 replies • 848 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

KennyA (Massachusetts)
Posts: 5
Posted:
This is a small 2-unit only condo (upstairs and downstairs) with a backyard. The backyard itself is quite small, 1400sf. My neighbor (who owns the downstairs unit) wants to take 100sf at least of the common area backyard to build a deck for exclusive use. She is adamant that it be exclusive use since it's right outside her kitchen window. Her reasoning is that she's never seen us use the backyard (both units only moved in 7 months ago, mind you, and we're in New England which means we had a small window of 2 months to be outdoors amidst all the moving), and that it wouldn't be a big deal if she took 100sf of the 1400sf because we can just pay more into the HOA. The current split is 45% (her)/55% (us) and wants to amend the documents so that it becomes 50%/50%.

I'm pissed for several reasons, but want to know if there are any legal ways to prevent this from happening because our reasoning so far has just resulted in her saying:

1) She's not taking away anything from us, she's paying more into the HOA! And she's paying for the deck herself! The 5% HOA increase is basically $10/month for taking away 14% of the backyard. How in good conscience can someone think that is fair?
2) The assessed land value itself of both units and the backyard is $1.2million. The plot size is approx 4,500sf only. $10/month is peanuts. She thinks it is fair because she's "paying more to the HOA" since it's HOA land.
3) No encroachments allowed in common area unless both units say yes. This is not working because she keeps insisting on a compromise, our compromise is a shared deck that is lower, but she is unwilling to consider anything less than exclusive use, at all, because it's fair since she's paying more into the HOA.
4) We love this nook, it's sheltered, and a large permanent exclusive use structure will ruin the exterior look of the building. I have dreams and plans for this place, but none of it compares to her "dream of owning her own deck because there was one at her old place for 5 years".

How have people resolved such issues within the HOA? Not only is a deck going to be ugly (see attached screenshot of 3D model I sketched), her trying to claim common area for herself under the reasoning she "didn't think 100sf was going to be a big deal for an area right by her window" for peanuts makes me want to tell her to pound sand.

Any suggestions on how I can shut this down or suggestions on compromising? Amending the HOA percentages is not fair at all, in my opinion, but I'm not sure monetarily if anything else would be fair. Value of land perhaps?

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Kenny,

Can you post relevant components of your CCRs and Bylaws - governing restrictions and process stuff?
KennyA (Massachusetts)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I've attached image attachments but they don't appear to show up in the original post, maybe it will in this reply?
https://imgur.com/a/4ULjy2u
https://imgur.com/a/xO5Pa9m
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Both those links take me to cartoons ...

You could just retype the applicable components into your thread ... without specific language, it is very difficult to assess.
KennyA (Massachusetts)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Unit A shall have the exclusive use of the enclosed first floor rear porch, however Unit B shall have the right to pass through the first floor rear porch as a means of ingress and egress. Unit B shall have the exclusive use of the second floor porches and walk up attic. The Unit B owner shall have the right to finish the attic space without approval of the Unit A owner, including installation of a skylight in the roof, provided same is done in full conformity with applicable building codes. In the event Unit B finishes the attic space, there shall be no affect on the Unit's allocable percentage share as stated herein.

The provisions of this Section 8 shall at all times take precedence over any other provisions of this Master Deed and the Declaration of Trust of the Condominium Trust (hereinafter referred to as the "Declaration of Trust"). No amendment or modification of the Declaration of Trust or By-Laws or Rules and Regulations thereto shall effect or interfere with the rights and easements held by the respective Unit owners as set forth in this Section 8 without the prior written consent of the owners of the Unit(s) affected thereby. Any exclusive use area or easements as set forth above shall be kept clean and maintained in good condition at the sole cost of the Unit owner whose Unit derives the benefit of such exclusive use area or easement.

Par. 9(c) shall be deleted in its entirety and replaced with the following provision:

Except as provided herein, no Unit owner shall make any addition, alteration or improvement in or to any Unit affecting the structural elements, mechanical systems or other Common Areas and Facilities of the Condominium without prior written notice to the Condominium Trustees specifying the work to be performed in reasonable detail, and no such work shall be performed which in the Trustees' reasonable judgment may affect the structural integrity or mechanical systems of the Condominium without prior written consent of the Trustees, which consent may contain such conditions (including without limitation restrictions as to the manner of performing such work and requirements for insurance) which in the Trustees' judgment are reasonable and necessary; all additions, alterations and improvements to any Unit (whether or not affecting the structural elements, mechanical systems or Common Areas and Facilities of the Condominium) shall be performed in a manner as not to unduly inconvenience or disturb the occupants of the Condominium;

In all other respects, the Master Deed shall remain in full force and effect.

- We are Unit B, neighbor is Unit A.
- The other question (adjacent related) is that, our main worry is that if we block this exclusive use, our neighbor will likely retaliate and block Unit B (us) from finishing the attic. We actually also want to build a dormer but did not include that specific language. Do you think the language in this deed would allow us to finish the attic including a dormer (structural change) without approval of Unit A?
KennyA (Massachusetts)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I am also very concerned about this language here - exclusive use common areas - which the HOA pays for. If it is 50%/50% and the deck needs repair as an exclusive use area within the common area - legally does that mean the HOA (and in effect, 50% of the payment) pays for it? I don't understand the responsibilities here as an exclusive use common area.

----------------------

Section 5.3.1. Maintenance, Repair and Replacement of Common Elements; Assessment of Common Expenses Therefor.

The Trustees shall be responsible for the proper maintenance, repair and replacement of the Common Elements which may be done through the Managing Agent, as hereinafter provided, and any two Trustees or the Managing Agent or any others who may be so designated by the Trustees may approve payment of vouchers for such work. The expenses of such maintenance, repair and replacement shall be assessed to the Unit owners as Common Expenses at such times and in such amounts as provided in Section 5.4; provided, however, that if such maintenance, repair and/or replacement is required due to the negligence or misuse of a Unit owner, such expense may be assessed to said Unit owner by the Trustees and the Unit owner shall be personally liable therefor.

----------------------

Section 5.3.2. Maintenance of Exclusive Use Areas. The Trustees may repair and make capital improvements to the exclusive use areas within the Condominium and shall bill such ordinary maintenance and capital costs in the same manner as Common Expenses allocated to the specific owner of the Unit to which the exclusive use is held.

----------------------

Section 5.1. Powers of the Trustees.
The Trustees shall have all the powers and duties necessary for the administration of the offices of the Condominium and may do all things, subject to and in accordance with all applicable provisions of said Chapter 183A and the Master Deed, and, without limiting the generality of the foregoing, the Trustees shall have the right, with full power and uncontrolled discretion, at any time and from time to time without the necessity of obtaining any approval or license of any court for leave to do so:

(a) to retain the Trust property, or any part or parts thereof, in the same form or forms of investment in which received or acquired by them so far and so long as they shall think fit, without liability for any loss resulting therefrom;

(b) to sell to the extent permitted by Chapter 183A, assign, convey, transfer, exchange and otherwise deal with or dispose of the Trust property, but not the Common Areas, free and discharged of any and all trusts, at public or private sale, to any person or persons for cash or on credit, and in such manner and on such restrictions, stipulations, agreements and reservations as they shall deem proper, including the power to take back mortgages to secure the whole or any part of the purchase price of any of the Trust property sold or transferred by them, and execute and deliver any deed or other instrument in connection with the foregoing;

( c) to purchase or otherwise acquire title to, and rent, lease or hire from others for terms which may extend beyond the termination of this Trust any property or rights to property, real or personal, and own, manage, use and hold such property and such rights;

( e) to enter into any arrangement for the use or occupation of the Trust property, or any part or parts thereof, including, without thereby limiting the generality of the foregoing, leases, subleases, easement, licenses or concessions, upon such terms and conditions and with such stipulations and agreements as they shall deem desirable, even if the same extend beyond the possible duration of this Trust;

(f) to invest and reinvest the Trust property, or any part or parts thereof, and from time to time, as often as they shall see fit, change investments, including investment in all types of securities and other property, of whatever nature and however denominated, all to such extent as to them shall seem proper, and without liability for loss even though such property or such investments shall be of a character or in an amount not customarily considered proper for the investment of trust funds or which does or may not produce income;

(m) to improve any property owned by the Trust;
(n) to manage, maintain, repair, restore, and improve Common Elements, and when they shall deem necessary, the Units;
( o) to determine the Common Expenses required for the affairs of the Condominium;
(p) to collect the Common Expenses from the Unit owners;
( q) to adopt and amend rules and regulations covering the details of the operation and use of the Common Elements;

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Kenny

Not to play lawyer but she cannot do the deck unless she has your permission so how for do you wish to take this? If she starts, are you willing pull a restraining stop order on the construction?

The right of access across the porch is in the Covenants so she cannot take it away.

You can remodel the attic and add a skylight as that is in the Covenants. Adding a dormer is outside of what the Covenants say can be done so I believe her permission might be needed for such.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
You can deny her request.

You can refuse to go 50/50 on dues.....she agreed to the terms when she purchased her condo.

If you tries to bulldozer your opinion, it's worth hiring a lawyer. It's not even emotional.
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posted:
What size deck does she want to build? What material does she want to use, would paving stone or something be acceptable? Would it help you to build a deck over her deck so you both have decks? I don't think you have to let her but I do think it would be creepy of you coming within 8 or 10 feet of her unit especially where there is a window. Also, this is a perfect time to get her to agree to the dormer if you agree to the deck.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamE2 on 01/31/2020 9:20 PM
What size deck does she want to build? What material does she want to use, would paving stone or something be acceptable? Would it help you to build a deck over her deck so you both have decks? I don't think you have to let her but I do think it would be creepy of you coming within 8 or 10 feet of her unit especially where there is a window. Also, this is a perfect time to get her to agree to the dormer if you agree to the deck.

Good questions and suggestions. In the overall scheme of things, I would think the dormer is more important than a small backyard deck.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Meeting: Request for deck denied. Next issue.....
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 02/02/2020 8:06 PM
Meeting: Request for deck denied. Next issue.....

I agree the OP can deny the request. What I am suggesting is if he does so, then I believe when he wants to add a dormer she will stop him to spite him.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
I believe when he wants to add a dormer she will stop him to spite him.


Dormer should be denied too.

If you want to make huge alterations to your place, buy a single family house.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Not saying it cant be done, but its a huge can of worms.

You would have to add the deck to the CCR's and who has exclusive right to the limited common area. When the deck needs replacing, who would be responsible. Might as well add in paperwork for adding another deck above the first deck and its responsibilities as a limited common area to the second floor. File all the paperwork with the state registry of deeds. Etc, etc.

Add it to the insurance for the building structure.

Then there is the issue of them grilling food, smoking pot/cigarettes, etc on the deck and the smell going into your place. Noise from parties. You have no idea how long the bottom floor person will live there and a nightmare person moves in.

If your happy with the current setup, deny it, until you find a better home.
KennyA (Massachusetts)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thank you for raising some additional points we had not considered. We are happy with the current setup. If our neighbor wanted to build in her own existing exclusive use area (like finishing her half of the basement) we would not stop her, it's the gray area of a common area that we cannot really comprehend/accept. That and she would be modifying the building structure by punching a door through the wall to connect to her new deck. More structural issues.

Well, she's definitely going to stop us from building a dormer.
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KennyA on 02/03/2020 9:10 AM
if our neighbor wanted to build in her own existing exclusive use area (like finishing her half of the basement) we would not stop her, it's the gray area of a common area that we cannot really comprehend/accept. That and she would be modifying the building structure by punching a door through the wall to connect to her new deck. More structural issues.

Well, she's definitely going to stop us from building a dormer.

This does not make any sense to me. You are okay with adding a dormer but not adding a deck because it is gray area and it is modifying the structure. The dormer is a gray area and modifies the structure. Not judging just wondering how you rationalize those two views there than one is for your benefit and the other isn't.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here