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JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
I've noticed that some of the regulars here can very quickly respond to questions that include links to case law, pending lawsuits, etc. I am obviously doing something wrong because I struggle with doing this effectively. Simple examples that I would like to do is find anything related to parking issues, selective enforcement issues, invalid rules issues, etc, etc.

Does anyone have advice on what sites can be used? Are there search techniques that you use that would be helpful? If anyone has any advice/tips on this subject I would sure appreciate it.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Depending on your question, the easiest thing is to ask your attorney (they have law clerks and paralegals to research this stuff). Everyone has his/her own way of doing it (AugustineD is very good), but one way to start is with your state government website. The legislative branch usually has links to your state statutes, so you can enter the subject and go from there. Remember, there are state statutes and state administrative codes you may have to look at.

Then, you can Google the hell out of your question. You can use search terms like HOA rules enforcement and come up with a lot of information and then narrow your search terms down to what you may want to see. Write your state in the search box, as in "HOA parking issues Indiana" and see what comes up.

There are HOA attorneys who also have websites (California and Colorado have some good ones) that may discuss cases from another state. Some of the larger property management companies also have blogs with helpful information. All of that said, remember that just because a certain state did one thing doesn't mean the same will apply in your state. Ditto for case law - there may be facts in the case that don't apply to your situation at all.

This is why I usually try to stay away from quoting legal this and that - most of the people on this website, including me, aren't attorneys, and it's a dangerous thing to look for legal advice from the internet. It's ok to educate yourself on what issues and questions may come up - it makes for useful and effective conversations with your attorney. However, legal research is what they do, so get out of the way and let them do what they do.

When I'm looking for information on parking issues, reserves and such, I try not to get bogged down in legalese, but instead, look for best practices that can be adapted to your community (along with lessons on what not to do). Sometimes, I think people on this website go on and on about legal mumbo jumbo, forgetting about the issue that prompted the law or lawsuit. For example, someone recently asked if she could ask her board for another hearing date because the one they set conflicted with her work schedule. Maybe it's just me, but why would anyone have to go to a website to ask a question like that - just ask them and see what happens (you may be surprised they really are willing to work with you).

For example, I'm not in California, but reading the Davis-Sterling website (that's run by a HOA law firm) has provided a fair amount of practical information that any HOA can use, such as managing reserves.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
DeidreB (Virginia)
Posts: 113
Posted:

John, I have fought the good fight on HOA parking issues for many years as a board member and home owner. There is so much content out there on the net on this topic that I cant really offer a particular site to you. Some good web search terms are: "HOA, lawsuit, parking, your state, guest parking, parking restrictions, etc..." If your state has an HOA related law, you will find what the state law says about it. There are usually some good law firms that present a lot of info as well on various hot HOA topics. Regardless, with the suggested search terms you should find a plethora of articles on state laws and websites that discuss the issues.

Just recently a Washington Post article came out on the issue in Virginia (below). Also, while older, I posted another article also out of Virginia that addresses similar parking issues. I suggest reading the comment section of the recent Post article for some interesting insights into community dynamics and how people can interpret the same law so differently.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/local-opinions/property-rights-are-under-fire-from-homeowners-associations/2019/03/28/b32a77da-476b-11e9-8aab-95b8d80a1e4f_story.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1997/09/18/ashburn-farm-residents-sue-over-parking-plan/8e73371f-9259-48dd-91d6-0f294f3c6213/
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Excellent advice and thank you. I'm looking to improve in this area more for general education than I am anything else. Sometimes I find it helpful to see what has happened to other HOA's that had similar issues to what we are facing. By studying their situation it helps me get a general idea on if we are going down the right path or if we are setting ourselves up for failure. I've only been on the Board for about 2 years and 6 months ago I was elected president. I enjoy learning whatever I can so that I can make informed decisions. There is a certain mindset that you have to have in this job and I've sometimes found that reading case law makes me rethink what I thought I knew. One example was a lawsuit about a swing set located on common ground and I was shocked when I read the case. I simply had not thought about the ramifications of something like this and it helped me open my mind about common area in general. Like many other Board members I had zero experience in HOA's and I'm very aware that I need to educate myself in any way possible.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Let's assume one's interest is selective enforcement of covenants in South Carolina. Here is an example of a typical path I use to proceed.

1.
Put the following in the google search engine:
"selective enforcement" "south carolina"
The quotation marks are important.

2.
The second hit that comes up appears to be a site dedicated to HOA chatter as follows:
http://communityassociationmanagement.com/c58-rules/c60-violations-and-enforcement/selective-ccr-enforcement/

The article at this site instantly references what it says is a South Carolina Supreme Court case: Palmetto Dunes v. Brown. But the authors provide no link to the case. There's a nice summary of what transpired in Palmetto Dunes v. Brown, but this is not good enough for, ya know, some of the sticklers around here. No problem; keep reading.

3.
Google:
"palmetto dunes" "brown" site:justia.com
justia.com has a lot of case law and is one of my favorites. Other sites are also dedicated to providing access to case law for free. Attorneys pay big bucks for subscriptions to more sophisticated libraries of case law.

4.
The first hit is this:
https://law.justia.com/cases/south-carolina/court-of-appeals/1985/287-s-c-1-2.html
It sure looks like what the article was referencing, except for two things:
(a) the suit is titled "Palmetto Dunes Resort v. Brown" at the justia.com site, unlike what the article referenced.
(b) justia.com so far indicates it is a state appeals court decision. The aforementioned article said the case was a state supreme court decision. What gives? Time to dig more.

5.
Justia.com also allows one to search a state's appeals court decisions and a state's supreme court decisions. E.g. see https://law.justia.com/south-carolina/
Here is what I put in the google search engine for first, South Carolina Supreme Court decisions and second, South Carolina Appeals Court decisions:
(a)
palmetto dunes brown site:https://law.justia.com/cases/south-carolina/supreme-court/
No cases titled "Palmetto Dunes Resort v. Brown" came up.

(b)
palmetto brown https://law.justia.com/cases/south-carolina/court-of-appeals/
The case came up. Based on the earlier, more general search, this was no surprise.

6.
But can one be certain that this case was not appealed from the SC court of appeals to the SC Supreme Court, and so maybe justia.com's records are incomplete with regard to SC Supreme Court decisions? (In my experience and for the time period in question, justia.com's records are typically quite complete.) Still, to answer this with confidence, I would read the article linked above more carefully. If the description the article provides appears to match the appeals court decision at justia.com, then I probably found the right case. But let's do one more check.

7.
Google
"Supreme Court of South Carolina" "Palmetto Dunes Resort v. Brown"
The first hit is: https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1329003/taylor-v-lindsey/ . I know courtlistener.com well. It too is a good resource for case law.
The courtlistener.com web site has a SC Supreme Court decision that cites, and links, a "Palmetto Dunes Resort v. Brown." When clicking on the link, the aforementioned appeals court decision comes up. From experience, I know that a state supreme court will not cite a lower appeals court unless the lower appeals court decision is the end of the line for the lawsuit, at least as far as appeals are concerned. Appeals are expensive, and the parties have already spent a pile of money by going to trial (which is different from an appeal). It is common for parties in a lawsuit either not to appeal at all or end their appeal at the appeals court level.

8.
At this point, I feel confident that I have found one of the leading cases in South Carolina on selective enforcement at HOAs. For the latest on the subject of selective enforcement, it would pay to see what other cases in South Carolina in subsequent years cited Palmetto Dunes Resort v. Brown. One can search the South Carolina appeals court and supreme court decisions as described above.

9.
Lastly, one may consider writing a good-natured email to the fine folks at http://communityassociationmanagement.com/ , stating:

Subject: Small Error in legal citation?

Dear Madam or Sir,

I could be mistaken, but I believe that your article at http://communityassociationmanagement.com/c58-rules/c60-violations-and-enforcement/selective-ccr-enforcement/ may have a small error. The article says Palmetto Dunes v. Brown was a South Carolina Supreme Court decision. But when I checked, I could only find a South Carolina Appeals Court decision titled, "Palmetto Dunes Resort v. Brown, 336 S.E.2d 15 (S.C. Ct. App. 1985)." Am I missing something?

Else your site has been enormously helpful to me as a HOA director.

Thanks you,

Jane Doe
President, Palmetto Dunes Resort, 1980-1986
"You violate a covenant, we nail you."
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
AugustinD, Thank you very much. Your example is perfect and will allow me to use it as an example for other searches. Thanks again!
BrianK13 (Indiana)
Posts: 94
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnT38 on 01/28/2020 9:34 AM
Excellent advice and thank you. I'm looking to improve in this area more for general education than I am anything else. Sometimes I find it helpful to see what has happened to other HOA's that had similar issues to what we are facing. By studying their situation it helps me get a general idea on if we are going down the right path or if we are setting ourselves up for failure. I've only been on the Board for about 2 years and 6 months ago I was elected president. I enjoy learning whatever I can so that I can make informed decisions. There is a certain mindset that you have to have in this job and I've sometimes found that reading case law makes me rethink what I thought I knew. One example was a lawsuit about a swing set located on common ground and I was shocked when I read the case. I simply had not thought about the ramifications of something like this and it helped me open my mind about common area in general. Like many other Board members I had zero experience in HOA's and I'm very aware that I need to educate myself in any way possible.

IMO, as you fill your head with case law, there's one important thing to keep in mind... the vast majority of issues/scenarios never see the courtroom. So you don't have to react to what you read in case law as "we'd better make sure to comply with that case law decision". You should probably filter it by first thinking "what are the chances of this ever going to court for our neighborhood?" And if it does go to court, what are the consequences really? And then weigh it appropriately.

Everything in life is a gamble, and trying to make it "not a gamble" often costs you much more than it's worth for that insurance. For example, Sunday Night movies "based on true stories" made mom's across America far more concerned/paranoid about kidnappers than was warranted, leading to "helicopter parenting" (where you are constantly hovering over your kids, lest you become a Sunday night movie).

The same concept applies here -- most of what you see in case law are "exceptional cases" .. that often < 1% which actually gets challenged in court.

As for us, our HOA is 26 years old, and board members have been guilty of PLENTY, but not once has anyone filed a lawsuit. The only lawsuits we've had is for common cookie-cutter dues collections. Period. 26 years, 100's actionable offenses, and not one went to court. Nothing happened. I think that is the norm for many HOA's.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Here is someone who thinks that, if one can get away with breaking the terms of a contract, because the terms (which were given well before all signed the contract) are now inconvenient, and doing so is in one's favor, one should.

If I lived in your HOA, and this is the way you come across, on the shed issue I would vote against you on sheer principle. Ever think that's why you cannot get the votes?
BrianK13 (Indiana)
Posts: 94
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 01/28/2020 3:49 PM
Here is someone who thinks that, if one can get away with breaking the terms of a contract, because the terms (which were given well before all signed the contract) are now inconvenient, and doing so is in one's favor, one should.

If I lived in your HOA, and this is the way you come across, on the shed issue I would vote against you on sheer principle. Ever think that's why you cannot get the votes?

I obtained proxies from 54% of our neighbors with no rosters or emails. It was 100% pure door knocking. Took me 30 hrs.

You keep incorrectly saying that we intend on "breaking the terms of a contract". The terms of our contract are clear - "after 20 years, it only requires 51% vote to approve terminations". If we want to terminate the ban on "wooden/shingled sheds", then by contract, this action only requires 51% vote. Since we are aiming for 9 terminations, we don't want to see any of these terminations go unapproved simply because folks mis-classify our actions as something more than a termination. They aren't. The net effect of each of these 9 proposals is to ONLY terminate existing restrictions; nothing more.

My comment above is extremely valid. It would be like saying "let me check to see if ANYONE in Indiana has received a speeding ticket for going 5 mph above the speed limit", and so I do a full legal search, and I find that there were "5 instances of speeding tickets issued for 5 mph, in the past 5 years", and so I say "woah, I don't want to get caught in THAT trap! I'm never going to go 5 mph over the speed limit."

There are 350,000 HOA's in the USA now. A good many of them are breaking rules/laws (I know ours was guilty of many blatant ones). Yet 99.99% of these offenses probably go unchallenged, despite people complaining. There exists a huge chasm between "complaining" (easy to do, makes you feel better) and "filing a lawsuit" (costs money, takes time, and incurs permanent irreversible damage to the HOA or neighbors). Only a scant few of the offenses are challenged in court via a lawsuit.

So as we decide how to proceed with HOA mgmt and are trying to assess risks - you should always take into the account:
1. Likelihood of something bad happening
2. Consequence if it does happen.

And multiply those two together to get a general feel for how much weight you should place on the concern.

This is a standard engineering process, so that engineers can decide where to spend their time. This method for decision-making applies to HOA mgmt as well.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I just hire a lawyer and let them deal with knowing case law. You will find that case law is established by each case won or lost. No situation is the same. A lawyer is a paid licensed practitioner of the law in a court of law. Which most lawyers I know would just toss your "case law" research out the window. They don't like it for many reasons. #1 being your not licensed to practice law. This is their job to do.

So if you have questions just consult a lawyer or come here.

Former HOA President

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