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PaulM30 (B)
Posts: 41
Posted:
I am the HOA President of a small 15 unit building in Colorado. I am the president by default, as nobody was willing to do it, so I am fairly up to speed on our rules and regs, but I defer as much as possible to the management company. We're between managers at the moment, so myself and the other two members (neither of whom live at the building) have had to be more involved recently.

Marijuana is legal in our state. An owner recently sent an email saying that the hallway outside her unit smells strongly of marijuana, and she wants the HOA board to do something about it as 'it's supposed to be a non-smoking building'. To be clear, our common areas are strictly non-smoking, but we do not restrict people from smoking inside their own units.

I advised her that we could possibly send a general email along with some other housekeeping items to see if the situation improves, but odors fall under the 'nuisance' section of the regulations and can be kind of hard to enforce or prove if no specific rule is being broken, particularly as she doesn't even know which unit it's coming from. I also advised that rather than the board immediately getting involved, she might just speak to her neighbors about it and then we can see how the situation develops from there and then we can weigh up HOA involvement. My intuition is that what she's asking is the equivalent of asking the board to ask her neighbor to turn their TV down. I suspect we have some responsibility at some point, but I'm not sure if we're at that point yet.

Also, and this is just me speculating, but I would assume that with the medicinal aspect of marijuana, we may need to consider that penalizing someone for using it could be discriminatory? I'm not sure about that point at all, but I've been trying to think of it from all angles.

So, any advice on how to proceed here?
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Smoking is allowed in the unit. Therefore, unless she can provide proof that someone is smoking in the common area there isn't much to act on.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
PaulM30, I think your analysis covers all the bases and is quite good. Nationwide, this issue comes up a lot, mostly for cigarette smoke but now increasingly for marijuana smoke as well. To help get even more education, you may want to google on {condominium smoking}.

To me, this is legally a difficult situation. I do not like telling boards they need to talk with a good attorney, but in this instance and in my opinion, the board needs to be able to 'blame the attorney' for the decision-making here. Else there's too much potential liability involved. That is, both parties here (the complainant and the mj smoker) have rights.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We've hd a couple of these complaints abut such odors in our halls. The PM put flyers under the doors that might be involved and requested that the users prevent noxious odors from entering the common areas. We do have a "noxious odor" clause, but a nuisance clause could be used too.

(This is NOT the same as a loud TV that bothers one neighbor.)

How many units does this corridor serve?

Smoking is not the only way to ingest marijuan so to forbid smoking it is not discrimitory.

If the problem persists, the board could make rule that no smoking is permitted at all even in units. This is becoming common in CA and we just made such a rule for our 25-story high rise. Presumably with 15 units, your residents wouldn't have to go so far to light up as our upper floor residents do.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
First of all, stop deferring to the management company on stuff like this. The property manager works at the board's direction, not the other way around, so you and your colleagues need to do your job and apply careful thought to the issues. You’re between managers anyway, and when you hire one, you will need to bring him/her up to speed instead of saying something like “well, we let our last property manager decide how to do X, so do what you want…” This is how rouge property managers start.

Now, regarding this issue, you’re correct that it can be difficult to determine where the weed smell is coming from, but you can tell homeowners if they wish to indulge, they need to ensure to keep the smell from wafting into the hallways, which are common areas (some people are allergic to smoke and we’re not just talking about a contact high). There are ashtrays that can clear the air of smoke and odor from cigarettes and cigars, so they are encouraged to invest in them. This doesn’t penalize people using blunts for glaucoma or whatever medical condition they have – controlling the smell is being a considerate neighbor.

So start there, and see what happens. If it continues and you can’t figure out where the smell’s coming from, you may have to consider getting some sort of air purifier system similar to what some restaurants use. Ask some marijuana dispensaries if they have any suggestions – if you find a system, tell the homeowners installation WILL require a special assessment (the thought of that could be enough for them to start controlling the stink or switch to edibles).

(I’ve never indulged in the stuff but my friends and relatives who did usually used a fan or incense to kill the smell because it was illegal back in the day….)

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/27/2020 9:15 AM
[snip for brevity excellent information from KerryL1] Smoking is not the only way to ingest marijuan so to forbid smoking it is not discrimitory.
I hope this is the way things are going. I won't buy a condo, rent an apartment or buy a home near anyone who smokes anything. I like a drink now and then so I can understand marijuana users, but only up until any extensive use (call it what it is: addiction) starts impacting the enjoyment of my home. In which case I consider them turds.
PaulM30 (B)
Posts: 41
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 01/27/2020 9:18 AM
First of all, stop deferring to the management company on stuff like this. The property manager works at the board's direction, not the other way around, so you and your colleagues need to do your job and apply careful thought to the issues. You’re between managers anyway, and when you hire one, you will need to bring him/her up to speed instead of saying something like “well, we let our last property manager decide how to do X, so do what you want…” This is how rouge property managers start.

Now, regarding this issue, you’re correct that it can be difficult to determine where the weed smell is coming from, but you can tell homeowners if they wish to indulge, they need to ensure to keep the smell from wafting into the hallways, which are common areas (some people are allergic to smoke and we’re not just talking about a contact high). There are ashtrays that can clear the air of smoke and odor from cigarettes and cigars, so they are encouraged to invest in them. This doesn’t penalize people using blunts for glaucoma or whatever medical condition they have – controlling the smell is being a considerate neighbor.

So start there, and see what happens. If it continues and you can’t figure out where the smell’s coming from, you may have to consider getting some sort of air purifier system similar to what some restaurants use. Ask some marijuana dispensaries if they have any suggestions – if you find a system, tell the homeowners installation WILL require a special assessment (the thought of that could be enough for them to start controlling the stink or switch to edibles).

(I’ve never indulged in the stuff but my friends and relatives who did usually used a fan or incense to kill the smell because it was illegal back in the day….)

We’re ‘between managers’ in the sense that we still have a contract with the management company, but the manager assigned to us recently left.

With all due respect, I’ll do what I want with regards to the amount of effort I put into the HOA. I have been president for over 3 years because not one owner is willing to step up, or even show up to board meetings or have any involvement beyond complaining.I have an extremely busy job, two babies, and very limited time. I have made it clear that I serve on purely a ‘best effort’ basis where I will attend to HOA matters when I have time, and nothing more. If any owner has a problem with that, they are free to take my spot, but nobody is willing to do so. Quite frankly, I cannot wait to sell this place and leave, and I will never live in an HOA again. I am HOA President purely to protect my investment.

Thanks for the advice regarding air purification and special assessment, that’s a great angle.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
OK, so this is a condo, correct?

You don't want to live in a house/condo with an HOA, but you are president to protect your investment in the one you are in?
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 01/27/2020 9:34 AM
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/27/2020 9:15 AM
[snip for brevity excellent information from KerryL1] Smoking is not the only way to ingest marijuan so to forbid smoking it is not discrimitory.
I hope this is the way things are going. I won't buy a condo, rent an apartment or buy a home near anyone who smokes anything. I like a drink now and then so I can understand marijuana users, but only up until any extensive use (call it what it is: addiction) starts impacting the enjoyment of my home. In which case I consider them turds.

Extensive use does not mean addiction. One can get addicted to nicotine. One cannot get addicted to marijuana or the active chemical compounds in it. Not in a medical sense. One can also get addicted to alcohol.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 01/27/2020 3:08 PM
Extensive use does not mean addiction. One can get addicted to nicotine. One cannot get addicted to marijuana or the active chemical compounds in it. Not in a medical sense. One can also get addicted to alcohol.
It's debated ad nauseam. For my money: I know it when I see it. Potheads are addicted. Sorry to offend. Truth to power: I could be the next addict of whatever.

From the New Yorker, January 7, 2019 by Malcolm Gladwell:

As the National Academy panel declared, in one of its few unequivocal conclusions, “Cannabis use is likely to increase the risk of developing schizophrenia and other psychoses; the higher the use, the greater the risk."

Berenson thinks that we are far too sanguine about this link. He wonders how large the risk is, and what might be behind it. In one of the most fascinating sections of “Tell Your Children,” he sits down with Erik Messamore, a psychiatrist who specializes in neuropharmacology and in the treatment of schizophrenia. Messamore reports that, following the recent rise in marijuana use in the U.S. (it has almost doubled in the past two decades, not necessarily as the result of legal reforms), he has begun to see a new kind of patient: older, and not from the marginalized communities that his patients usually come from. These are otherwise stable middle-class professionals. Berenson writes, “A surprising number of them seemed to have used only cannabis and no other drugs before their breaks. The disease they’d developed looked like schizophrenia, but it had developed later—and their prognosis seemed to be worse. Their delusions and paranoia hardly responded to antipsychotics.”

Messamore theorizes that THC may interfere with the brain’s anti-inflammatory mechanisms, resulting in damage to nerve cells and blood vessels. Is this the reason, Berenson wonders, for the rising incidence of schizophrenia in the developed world, where cannabis use has also increased? In the northern parts of Finland, incidence of the disease has nearly doubled since 1993. In Denmark, cases have risen twenty-five per cent since 2000. In the United States, hospital emergency rooms have seen a fifty-per-cent increase in schizophrenia admissions since 2006. If you include cases where schizophrenia was a secondary diagnosis, annual admissions in the past decade have increased from 1.26 million to 2.1 million.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Meh.
PaulM30 (B)
Posts: 41
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 01/27/2020 11:52 AM
OK, so this is a condo, correct?

You don't want to live in a house/condo with an HOA, but you are president to protect your investment in the one you are in?

Yes, condo. It was my first time buying a property. When I bought the place, the board was comprised of 3 owners who all lived in the building, and the meetings were well attended. When a board member moved, I was asked to step in and become HOA president, and I was given the impression that it was kind of expected that people take their turn to serve, so I did it. Everything continued to go well, meetings were attended, people were engaged etc. In fairly quick succession, two board members and one of the more active owners sold up, and their units were bought and then rented out. We also have a couple of units which aren't rented, but used as part time properties. We're now in a position where the owners who live in the building are all refusing to serve on the board as they've already done it before, and aside from one, the owners who rent their units out are absolutely disinterested in doing attending meetings, responding to emails etc, and the only two other owner occupiers are completely unsuitable for board membership. The board is comprised of me, and two owners who don't live in the building, one of whom I've never actually met in person.

I'm at the point where I am serving 100% because I don't want the association in receivership. We're in a situation where many of the owners just fundamentally don't understand the idea of a community, and seem to think the board should continue to serve indefinitely, while they shouldn't even need to attend meetings or do anything aside from complain, usually about costs related to limited common elements. So yes, I'm keeping the ship afloat until I can leave, and I won't buy in an HOA ever again.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
So, is this a condo issue, or a governance construct issue?

You painted with a very broad brush.

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