Owner No Email and Reading Board Meeting Minutes

Started by NpB • 16 replies • 594 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605

Posted:

If an owner does have email, only visits their unit one week a year, presumably communicates with no other owners, and does not attend Board meetings nor reads Board meeting minutes, is the onus on that owner to know and be responsible for deadline for painting their house?

BobB31 (Florida)
Posts: 178

Posted:

Sort of. In our HOA, if the owner does not supply an email address, we have to send paper minutes vie snail mail. So the onus is still on the owner to read the minutes. In addition, notice of required maintenance needs to be sent by snail mail - again, the onus is on the owner to read it.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Our rules allowed the HOA to paint the house and send the owner the bill. If the owner did not pay the bill, then we could place a lien for it. Given that there is money in the HOA's budget to afford to paint a house and file a lien...

Otherwise, the HOA has decided the home needs painting it's on them to contact the owner via mail to the HOA address AND their known other address. I'd cover BOTH locations with certified letters. The HOA does NOT open rejected/unopen ones sent back. Those will be evidence of contact.

So the HOA should do it's due diligence to contact the owner. You all can decide the paint and bill approach or incur fines if allowed. No reason they can't be responsible for the property whether they are in contact with the HOA or not.

Former HOA President

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

I think most HOAs have a process that requires mail delivery of an initial courtesy letter, then formal letter, then registered mail requiring signature, then fines.

While it is sometimes legal and process to enter the property to paint the outside, this is fraught with uncertainty and danger of litigation and risk. COAs are different.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

If my HOA was to order such, a US Mail letter would be sent to the owner. If no response/action we would more than likely send a Registered Letter. If no response/action, we would rain ours weapons down on them.

NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605

Posted:

For an absentee owner, the only time they would be mandated to be notified by the HOA per state statute is for the date/time/location of the annual meeting via first class mail. Otherwise, if they have no email, do not know any other owners, nor attend Board meetings or request minutes, they do not know what is occurring in the HOA or of any painting mandates for example. There is no statute that requires an HOA Board to automatically after they are ratified mail each owner Board meeting minutes.

If such an owner claims they were never notified or informed (due to above examples) that their house had to be painted by a specific deadline and then contest such fines, who would prevail in a court case---the owner or HOA?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Don't know about court outcomes, but as a courtesy, surely this owner can be alerted by US mail a couple of times, yes?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I think so. Must homeowners be led by the nose (or other parts of the body) for every damned thing? If you don't want an HOA to dictate to you when to paint your house or mow your lawn, get a house in a non-HOA community and do what the hell you like!

If you live in a homeowner's association, it's on you to know the rules and keep up with what's going on - reading the community newsletter and/or website once in a while might take care of that, provided it's updated regularly.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

PaulJ6
Posts: 990

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 01/16/2020 4:40 PM
Don't know about court outcomes, but as a courtesy, surely this owner can be alerted by US mail a couple of times, yes?

Agreed. I don't think it's reasonable to expect absentee owners to discover deadlines about painting houses through reading board minutes. Even if the HOA can play "gotcha" by including the deadline in minutes and having some policy terms somewhere saying that an owner needs to read them, if the goal is to get the house painted without HOA expense, the HOA should send a letter to the owner and maybe even call him or her. "What does it take to get this done reasonably" should be the attitude of the HOA.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NpB on 01/16/2020 4:27 PM
If such an owner claims they were never notified or informed (due to above examples) that their house had to be painted by a specific deadline and then contest such fines, who would prevail in a court case---the owner or HOA?

No saying at the trial court level. At the appeals court level, I would expect the owner to prevail. Why? Because the following is approximately what attorneys advise:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 01/16/2020 4:12 PM
If my HOA was to order such, a US Mail letter would be sent to the owner. If no response/action we would more than likely send a Registered Letter. If no response/action, we would rain ours weapons down on them.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GeorgeS21 on 01/16/2020 3:56 PM
While it is sometimes legal and process to enter the property to paint the outside, this is fraught with uncertainty and danger of litigation and risk.

I'd worry more about the danger of bullets in a "Stand Your Ground" state such as Florida.

Our CC&Rs contain a few so-called self-help provisions. Our attorney strongly suggested we contact him before engaging in any self-help remedy. If done at all, he recommended that it only be done with a court order in hand and in the company of a local law-enforcement officer. Contractors can be reluctant to do anything on a property where the owner isn't present and consenting to the work.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Although many governing documents give the authority for an HOA to enter the premisis and conduct repairs, we asked our attorney that question when a complaint was received over an architectural inspection.

The attorney's response was simple:

enter the property only with a court order.
Otherwise, those who enter may be subject to criminal violations.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 01/16/2020 6:04 PM
Although many governing documents give the authority for an HOA to enter the premisis and conduct repairs, we asked our attorney that question when a complaint was received over an architectural inspection.

The attorney's response was simple:

enter the property only with a court order.
Otherwise, those who enter may be subject to criminal violations.

If I was to do so, I would hire some off-duty police/sheriffs (in full uniform) to accompany me as be in 50 yards in front of me.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927

Posted:

The minutes are the wrong place for this sort of information/ deadline.

Such communications should be send in a single-purpose, short letter to the mailing address of the owner.

Remember the purpose is to gain compliance not to induce people to have a violation and then fine them.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Fred's input is spot on.

In regard to your actual question . . . "is the onus on that owner to know and be responsible for deadline for painting their house?" . . . the answer is, it depends.

Is the house-painting deadline specified and contained anywhere in your official governing documents? If so, then yes the onus is on the owner to be aware of the deadline and remain in compliance. But keep input below in mind as well.

However, if the deadline is imposed somewhere outside of governing documents (e.g., meeting minutes, website, facebook page, emails, flyer hung on clubhouse bulletin board, etc.), then it needs to also be officially communicated to all owners in accordance with your governing documents and state HOA law . . . which is typically via first-class mail to the owner's address (usually it's the unit's/home's address, but for non-resident owners, it may be another address supplied by owner).

All that said, Fred's input that "the purpose is to gain compliance not to induce people to have a violation and then fine them" is most important. Unless the owner is being intentionally non-compliant and difficult, then do what you can to communicate, correspond, and work with them, to achieve the end goal. Don't seek to be heavy-handed, adhered to a process, and so narrowly-focused that you miss an opportunity for mutual benefit.

NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ND on 01/23/2020 10:34 AM
Fred's input is spot on.

In regard to your actual question . . . "is the onus on that owner to know and be responsible for deadline for painting their house?" . . . the answer is, it depends.

Is the house-painting deadline specified and contained anywhere in your official governing documents? If so, then yes the onus is on the owner to be aware of the deadline and remain in compliance. But keep input below in mind as well.

However, if the deadline is imposed somewhere outside of governing documents (e.g., meeting minutes, website, facebook page, emails, flyer hung on clubhouse bulletin board, etc.), then it needs to also be officially communicated to all owners in accordance with your governing documents and state HOA law . . . which is typically via first-class mail to the owner's address (usually it's the unit's/home's address, but for non-resident owners, it may be another address supplied by owner).

All that said, Fred's input that "the purpose is to gain compliance not to induce people to have a violation and then fine them" is most important. Unless the owner is being intentionally non-compliant and difficult, then do what you can to communicate, correspond, and work with them, to achieve the end goal. Don't seek to be heavy-handed, adhered to a process, and so narrowly-focused that you miss an opportunity for mutual benefit.

Deadline is in meeting minutes as well as in email, but since not all owners have email, the questions remains absence of a state law, does the HOA have a responsibility to send a letter to owners who have no email informing them of a painting deadline. Then naturally, an excuse will be "I didn't receive the letter" which you can't prove or disprove.

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217

Posted:

NpB, you are correct that receipt of ordinary first class mail cannot be confirmed. However, at some point in a compliance situation such as this, communications with the owner not in compliance should move to Certified Mail with a Return Receipt Requested. I would say one more try with First Class mail then move to Certified. Also, all mail from the Association or Management Company should request Address Service

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here