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NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605
Posted:
Yes, I realize that probably most CC&Rs prohibit HOA members from receiving a wage, salary or stipend for their Board service, but given the paucity (at least in my experience) of homeowners interested in running for the HOA Board, do you think if state legislatures mandated that all HOA Board members receive a yearly $500 stipend, it would increase the number of candidates for Board election?
PaulJ6
Posts: 990
Posted:
A mandatory $500 stipend wouldn't attract people you really want serving on a board. No CEO or high-grade lawyer will care about $500, for example.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaulJ6 on 01/16/2020 11:46 AM
A mandatory $500 stipend wouldn't attract people you really want serving on a board. No CEO or high-grade lawyer will care about $500, for example.

I have know a few executives/attorneys who would not get on these boards because of the risk. I am not sure if true in every state, but in my state, Texas, each Board member, on a POA, is responsible for any Board decision no matter how each of them voted. There is no responsibility hierarchy - a Board member at large is just as responsible as the President. In Texas, the only way to relieve oneself of that responsibility, and it would only be for that one specific vote, is to write and publish, the overall membership, a letter of dissent in that specific vote. Other states might have similar rules.

I have known some retired executives, so they had the time, that have sincerely said that is why they will not be on a POA board. They do not want personal risk based on decisions others make.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
There are lots of HOAs with the problem you mention, including mine - we haven't even had an annual meeting in two years because we can't get enough people to return enough proxies that would give us the minimum number of homeowner participation required to hold it (16 out of 156 units). While this could work as an incentive for some people, this could also place a burden on the operating budget depending on the number of board members.

If people are getting paid, whether through a stipend or credit to their assessments (which might work better, in my opinion), I would expect and demand some sort of performance evaluation regarding attendance and continuing education, and perhaps some other things I can't think of right now.

After 10 years on my board, I concluded long ago board service isn't for everyone, even if some have the skill set. I read an article on the Huffington Post about two years ago saying it's the worst volunteer job in America (it may still be around in the Internet universe if you do a search). I know some people won't do anything for anyone else, even if it's the right thing to do, and I would be concerned the money carrot would result in more inept and ethically challenged people running the show and I don't want them either.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
PaulJ6
Posts: 990
Posted:
Posted By SheliaH on 01/16/2020 12:29 PM
we can't get enough people to return enough proxies that would give us the minimum number of homeowner participation required to hold it (16 out of 156 units).

I've seen that as well. One solution: send proxies to people through an email/electronic signature program such as DocuSign. It's easy: they just click to sign them and the proxy is automatically returned to the person who sent it to the owner.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote from the Huffington Post article that Sheila mentioned:

"Here's the main reason why being an HOA board member could be the worst volunteer job in America. When I was a soccer coach of eight-year-olds, I had to deal with a player's dad who was insane. He never volunteered. He just showed up every now and then and would berate the team and myself from the sidelines like a crazy person. I got though it for two reasons. First, everyone else knew he was nuts. And second, perhaps most importantly, I could go home and be done with him after the game. Unfortunately for HOA board members, they need to live side-by-side with their antagonists. The soccer dad could only scream from the sidelines. He was not entitled to speak his peace or "take the floor" at meetings on a monthly basis. I didn't have to see him every time I pulled into my driveway. He couldn't approach me while I was walking my dog."

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
$500 per year. Hell, I spill that much in a year. I would not want the type person that $500 per year means something.
NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 01/16/2020 4:25 PM
$500 per year. Hell, I spill that much in a year. I would not want the type person that $500 per year means something.

If you were to write your state legislator to encourage such a bill, what amount would you suggest?
PaulJ6
Posts: 990
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpB on 01/16/2020 4:29 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 01/16/2020 4:25 PM
$500 per year. Hell, I spill that much in a year. I would not want the type person that $500 per year means something.


If you were to write your state legislator to encourage such a bill, what amount would you suggest?

Zero.

This is not an area in which government needs to be involved. A "one size fits all" approach, and a legal requirement, is not appropriate in this case.

If an individual HOA isn't getting enough people to serve on its board:

1. The HOA could decide to pay people an amount that is appropriate for the HOA. A HOA on Fifth Avenue at 65th Street won't have the same pay scale as one in rural USA.
2. The HOA could just ask people. That's free.
3. The HOA could market itself better.

Etc., etc., etc.

Lots of ways to get more people on HOA boards without denying freedom by passing another law.

And maybe a HOA would have a better use for a few thousand dollars than paying board members?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Np,

What one needs to realize is that once you are paid to perform a job/task, you are considered a professional.

As a professional, you lose any protections you had as a volunteer (see VOLUNTEER PROTECTION ACT OF 1997).

As a professional, you are also subject to licensing requirements (if any), etc.

I wouldn't serve on a board that paid their board members. Simply too risky.
Note: I also wouldn't live within an Association that did this.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I'm with Tim. Compensating board members or officers just encourages bad actors. Maybe not at first, but eventually it's unavoidable.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Every HOA is a separate entity. It is also funded by it's members for it's members. Meaning any income given to board members they are paying for it through their dues. Plus the HOA is a non-profit corporation (NOT a charitable one) which is set up to pay for it's own generated expenses. Income isn't necessarily one of those "expenses".

The HOA should be offering liability insurance to protect the members PERSONAL assets. Which is what most HOA's do for their board members. Protect them from personal losses from a HOA lawsuit.

Never ever compensate a member by having them skip paying dues as well for compensation. That is even a worse idea. If the HOA member deserves reimbursent for similar dues amount, they still pay their dues. The HOA then gives them a check.

Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I say that if you're trying to pay for professionalism, then prepare to pay a lot.

Associations that get themselves into real trouble go into receivership, where the receiver performs the functions of the board.

Receivers are well paid, and can even earn more per hour than an attorney. Because why? Because of the knowledge and skills required to do the job successfully.

This suggests that putting volunteers in charge of an association is a recipe for failure, and no token payment will change that. If some homeowners have that level of skill, they're probably still exercising those skills for money somewhere (unless they're retired) and wouldn't be interested an unpaid or poorly-paid part-time gig doing the same things.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
perspective...... New Hampshire lawmakers make $100 a year and they make laws for a population of 1.3 million.

anyway, it's typically against your documents to compensate anybody serving
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaulJ6 on 01/16/2020 4:38 PM
Posted By NpB on 01/16/2020 4:29 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 01/16/2020 4:25 PM
$500 per year. Hell, I spill that much in a year. I would not want the type person that $500 per year means something.


If you were to write your state legislator to encourage such a bill, what amount would you suggest?


Zero.

This is not an area in which government needs to be involved. A "one size fits all" approach, and a legal requirement, is not appropriate in this case.

If an individual HOA isn't getting enough people to serve on its board:

1. The HOA could decide to pay people an amount that is appropriate for the HOA. A HOA on Fifth Avenue at 65th Street won't have the same pay scale as one in rural USA.
2. The HOA could just ask people. That's free.
3. The HOA could market itself better.

Etc., etc., etc.

Lots of ways to get more people on HOA boards without denying freedom by passing another law.

And maybe a HOA would have a better use for a few thousand dollars than paying board members?

I agree.

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