Excessive Fines Question

Started by SamS7 • 16 replies • 539 views

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SamS7 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 5

Posted:

I am looking for opinions regarding a situation with my HOA where I feel I was fined excessively.

I ended up having to move and had a hard time selling my condo, and rented it to someone.
There was an issue with a dog on premises (related to the breed of the dog).
I worked with my renter and he quickly found another place for the dog to live until the lease expired.

Well after two months go by, and I received a letter from the HOA board stating that the dog was seen on 3 occasions in that time.
I believe that could be the case, because the renter may have had him in his truck, and the dog was let out to do his business or such. (i.e. the dog was not living there, but the owner was running errands with him and...)

Because of this I was fined $50 a day back to the day of the original issue.
This was a total of over $3,000 and a lien was placed on the condo.

I strongly believe that a large part of this was related to the HOA president having a grudge against me personally, and didn't like units to be rented out.

I'm curious if people have had experience with this or if there is something I can do about it

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

A HOA President taking his or her personal animosity out on a member is common (and disgusting). The board needs to have proof of the violations. It needs to have a procedure for imposing fines that is pretty exacting. Your situation is complicated. I think hiring an attorney would be best.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

You never mentioned if you were sent warnings before the fines? Also you mentioned the dog was seen 3 times yet you were fined daily. This doesn't add up.

SamS7 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 5

Posted:

After the original warning, I was not notified during the next two months.
My next notice was the daily $50 fine totally over $3,000 for seeing the dog 3 times.

SamS7 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 5

Posted:

The problem with hiring a lawyer for an amount that size is that I will likely spend more on the lawyer than it's worth.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Sounds like there's quiet a bit more to the story here . . .

But I'd agree that this situation warrants at least a bit of actual legal review/advice. I'm no lawyer, but if the lien came about as a result of an improper or insufficient violation/fine process and existence of the lien impacted your ability to sell the condo, then there're potentially more at stake than the $3k of fines. Could be a lengthy/costly battle though to get it sorted out.

Or if you just want the $3k to go away, then a threatening letter from your lawyer might be a couple hundo well spent.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

3 times. $50 each. 3 x $50 = $150.

There are 2 kinds of fee structures for multiple offenses.

A. Cumulative or Ongoing. So much a day til the issue is resolved. Typical when someone doesn't maintain their property. It's an ongoing offense.

B. Progressive or Repeating. So much for 1st offense. A higher amount for 2nd offense. Etc. Typical for someone doesn't pick up dog poop. It's a repeating offense.

Some HOAs have both types of fee structures. Some HOAs don't apply the right fee structure. I would suggest reading everything in your rules about how you can be fined. If you like, post the exact language here.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Sounds like you are admitting guilt, and added some fog “running errands with him,” to the guilt component.

I would accept the fact any legal case is going to be expensive.

Unless you have really jacked your Board around, it might be best to say you’re sorry, beg forgiveness and try to negotiate.

SamS7 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 5

Posted:

O my GeorgeS21, not at all
I left some details out to have privacy out of fear of retribution
If I told you the full story, you would be appalled
I'm just asking for opinions and avenues for possible help

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

OK, let us know how the court case goes.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Sam

Throw yourself on the mercy of the BOD and claim you ordered the removal of the dog and the owner told you the dog was removed. If removed, have the renter send you a letter saying so.

KimberlyW2 (Tennessee)
Posts: 38

Posted:

I think you probably have to strongly look at the real possibility your tenant never re-homed the dog and that your neighbors are very much aware of the fact the dog has been there all along. Someone is telling the Board about seeing the dog or someone on the Board has seen the dog using your common grounds on 3 different occasions- which your tenant claimed were a bathroom break while he was " running errands with the dog ". I find that kind of hard to believe.

So, maybe your court case will fall to your tenant to reimburse you for the fines. Have you considered making an unannounced visit to your tenant to see if the dog is indeed still living there?

K.

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880

Posted:

This is from the Wisconsin Condominium Act:
"703.24 (3) Liability for violation by tenant.
(a) If a tenant of a unit commits a violation that results in a charge, fine, or assessment imposed by the association pursuant to the bylaws or association rules, the tenant is liable for the charge, fine, or assessment."

This is good news for you, since you may be able to collect from your tenant.

The Act goes on with a lot of conditions for giving notice and how that affects your and your tenant's liability. It also refers to another section of law, 704.21 (1) (a) to (e), as to how notice is given. I didn't copy all of that here, but I recommend that you read both sections (703.24 and 704.21(1)) one point at a time to see if how it fits your situation and whether the condo association gave proper notice.

If you think you have a case, then you can consult with a lawyer, who may be able to write a letter on your behalf to the association demanding they remove the lien (in case the association screwed up anything like failure to give you proper notice or due process). A lawyer can also write a demand letter to your tenant, or tell you how to sue your tenant (or the association) in small claims court. There is also a possibility of slander of title, where you may be able to recover your legal fees and other damages.

You can also post your questions here and someone may be able to answer, although we are (mostly) not lawyers here.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

They can't necessarily place a lien for fines. Something you need to find out first and foremost. Each state is different. Liens are for unpaid dues. Foreclosures can't be done based on fines. So were you not paying dues?

Normally would not recommend a lawyer but in this case I would. You can find some cheaper legal advice in your town I am sure. there are some legal services available. Plus not sure how you can respond to an improper lien. That is a question for a lawyer. Do NOT hire a Real Estate attorney. This isn't real estate.

Plus there is the issue of holding your feet to the ground for your tenant's violations. Next time you sign a lease, give yourself an "out". Meaning protect yourself by having a caveat if the tenant doesn't obey the HOA's rules, you can evict. This way you could have removed the tenant before it hit your bottom pocket.

Former HOA President

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

I’m going to hold off on more ... let’s wait and see what the OP turns up through the lawsuit.

SamS7 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 5

Posted:

from all this I think I'm better off going on one of those fund raising websites,
I've already pleaded with the board and tried small claims court,
I guess I have to just to deal with it, I can't afford to do much else

to everyone that responded, I do truly appreciate the information

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SamS7 on 01/16/2020 3:02 PM
from all this I think I'm better off going on one of those fund raising websites,
I've already pleaded with the board and tried small claims court,
I guess I have to just to deal with it, I can't afford to do much else

to everyone that responded, I do truly appreciate the information

What would you be raising money for? Legal fees?

Did you go to small claims court? What happened?

The law says that your tenant owes you the money for the fines. Have to tried to get the tenant to pay?

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