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KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
There's ongoing debate on my HOA board about a maintenance issue in our high rise condo building. There are several areas in our CC&Rs, especially, but not only, in the articles called Maintenance Obligations of the Association and Maintenance Obligations of Owners. It involves our exclusive use common area (limited use) balconies, patios & decks.

I'm back on the Board after a year off and we have two new directors who show a lot of promise. One, "Tom," previously served on high rise boards in our neighborhood. He was a title officer for many years so knows a lot about certain aspects of real estate transactions.

He wants a senior highly experienced member of his former firm to analyze our CC&Rs on the maintenance topic and give me personally an opinion. His friend will do it for free. Tom wants to know if I'd "respect" the man's opinion, which seems to mean would I buy into it. He doesn't want to ask his friend to send hours reading the appropriate sections of our CC&Rs unless I promise this "respect."

I'm thinking, though very curious about Tom's friend's opinion, to not take him up on this offer. I do want Tom to want to work with me on this Board and don't want to offend him in any way. He does, though, seem to think that title officers are experts in everything related to our condo.

I, on the other hand, think that an HOA attorney would be the most appropriate source to interpret these areas of our CC&Rs. It's not my sense that title officers (or real estate attorneys who handled our purchases in other states) are the most knowledgeable sources to interpret these. Opinions?
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Danger, Kerry.

Find independent COA attorney.

Your new Board Member is already attempting to manipulate.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
So in other words he wants to limit your options by getting you to agree with whatever his friend determines before you even know what he is going to say? Sounds pretty controlling an arrogant to me.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
I agree with GeorgeS21 and JohnT38. Your vote (or respect or whatever Tom wants to call it) is not for sale at any price.
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
The best person, IMHO, are the people who have to insure the property, based on what the CCRs say.

Some associations will have operations manuals, some will have a checklist done on Excel that will show every little item and whether HOA or Owner responsible. Many times these documents are recorded along side the CCRs as an amendment.

Best practice is having this done when an association restates their governing documents as older ones generally aren't that detailed.
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
This question cannot be answered without a definition of “respect.”
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
advice is advice.

Even attorney's only offer their opinions.

You never really know what opinion is correct until a court makes a ruling.

Per my laypersons understanding, the Association is better protected if they sought and followed legal advice. Legal advice, in my opinion, would be what the Association paid an attorney to provide.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
His friend will do it for free.


Title officers are typically very good at reading weird deeds, so CCR's/Bylaws would definitely fall under this same style of writing. I'm willing to bet he would have a better understanding of the legal language than anyone else you would find, including a lawyer.

Since he is willing to do it for free, I would say "yes". As for "respect" I think you can give the guy respect. Your an adult.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
The point is the offer came with manipulative strings attached.

Refuse the strings, tell Tom, sure, and ensure the Board sees the entire opinion. Take it with all other opinions.

Tom sounds odd.

Me? I would laugh at someone who approached me with this deal.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
This reminds me of comments that some attorneys have made about Codes of Conduct for board members. Agreeing to abide by particular course of action can make the "business judgement" defense null and void. A director has to judge each situation on its merits without any pre-conceived notions, let alone the pre-conceived notions of someone who will likely have a vested interest in the outcome.

It's good to have opinions, but "Tom" has ties to his previous firm, so he's not impartial. I'd have to say no to this.
PaulJ6
Posts: 990
Posted:
What an odd request.

Nothing wrong with asking the title officer to read the documents and receive his view, but agreeing to accept it? That’s nuts. The title officer could be wrong. So could the attorney.

It seems weird for the other board member to be willing to ask the title officer to review the documents only if you pre-approve the outcome of the review before knowing what it is. It sounds like the other board member already knows what the opinion of the title officer will be (i.e., it’ll be what the other board member wants).
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
We don’t know what @resoect” means. We dont know what - if any - strings are attached.

Who among you has offered knowledgeable advice, only for it to be disregarded? Or not respected ?

This volunteer may just need to know that his time and talent is appreciated.

The OP was neglectful for not asking what he meant. We aren’t mind readers, either.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Kerry

Reply that no matter the answer, not all will be happy and some will fight it thus you feel an attorney's opinion will have more weight. Add: I would hate to involve us in a legal dispute and learn we based our decisions on erroneous non-legal advice
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:

Reminder: Tom only wants his friend's interpretation to go to me.

Here's Tom's wording, "...will you respect what this man has to say?" I do now see the good points by George, JohnT, PaulJ & Augie. I knew Tom fairly well before he was elected and he is indeed somewhat arrogant. I've been respectful of him, so it's not that he thinks I'll be rude to this man. Tom is trying to back me into a corner betting that my curiosity will get the best of me.

But I hadn't thought of Cathy's point about the "Business Judgement" defense. In the business Judgement rule, we should seek advice from those competent in given fields. We should practice due diligence as our "duty of care" towards the corporation. I simply don't think a title officer has the knowledge of state statutes about HOAs, which in CA are very numerous. I don't think they're the "right" expert from whom to seek this interpretation.

One problem here is that the board has never had this maintenance issue on an agenda to hash out and try to interpret with or without advice from counsel. Imo, by never discussing these CC&Rs regarding WHO is responsible for a huge proposed expenditure, the board has not practiced due diligence.

Our own HOA general counsel told us board members some time ago that of the 1,000 CC&Rs he's been involved in interpreting, rewriting, etc., ours are among the 10 most complicated. And, in fact, HE misinterpreted a maintenance article once too, and had to recant.

Tom does have ties to this guy and Tom also thinks title officers are "experts" at everything--he is attached to that opinion.

I DO have an Interpretation, and I'd actually be thrilled to see something opposing or at least different from mine drawing from our documents. I do have some case law to back me up, but surely am no expert.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Any opinion is provided to the Board. No promises, except complete transparency.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 12/28/2019 5:34 PM
[snip]Tom is trying to back me into a corner betting that my curiosity will get the best of me.
[snip]
I do have some case law to back me up, but surely am no expert.


I beg to differ on both points.

Kerry, I think you are expert. This includes being expert enough to know that if there is even the smallest bit of room for an alternate interpretation, it is likely that someone somewhere could make that interpretation and even argue it in court (though maybe not successfully). Maybe it is even fair to say there is just enough ambiguity in the covenants (on this point) for a court to rule that the covenants are... ambiguous. What is a board to do? First, consult a lot of experts. Will all these expert opinions be unanimous? Maybe not, especially if a faction at your condominium hires its own attorney to argue whatever the faction wants the attorney to argue.

Here's a thought: Ask the board to survey the community for a possible amendment to the governing documents. See if the community wants to make it as clear as possible who is responsible for the infrastructure in question.
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
The owners in the end are all responsible. It's just a matter whether it's individually or collectively.

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