ARB Approval / Decline records

Started by HenryD3 • 19 replies • 1268 views

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HenryD3 (Florida)
Posts: 49

Posted:

Hello,
I recently moved into a Deed Restricted / HOA community. At a recent Board meeting, I asked a) if I could see any ARB requests that were approved or declined for my home in the community b) If I could see any ARB requests for planting a Bismarck Palm tree in the community.
The Board replied I need to contact the Property Management company and I may be required to pay for the Property Management time to provide those documents.

My question is - are ARB meeting minutes, ARB Requests and decisions records that the HOA should keep and provide to home owners?

Thank you

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

They can be but not necessarily for free...

Former HOA President

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

It appears that your HOA employs a property manager, and one of that manager's duties is to maintain the HOA's records. Depending on the nature of the records (paper or electronic or both, age of your home and how far back the manager will have to look), searching for this information can be time-consuming. The HOA will be charged for this, so it passes on the cost of searching, printing and transmitting the info to the homeowner making the request.

This is very common.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

First, Is your HOA incorporated? Is your HOA a condominium? Can you confirm that your HOA is subject to Florida Statute 720? This is the statute that usually applies to homeowners' associations that are not condominiums in Florida.

Second, if your HOA is subject to Florida statute 720, then section 720.303(4)(L) requires the Board to maintain as "official records" "All other written records of the association not specifically included in the foregoing which are related to the operation of the association." I believe ARB meeting minutes, ARB requests, and ARB decision records fall under this category. The HOA should provide these to you and should do so pursuant to what the rest of 720.303 states.

See http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0720/0720.html

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HenryD3 on 12/13/2019 8:19 PM
My question is - are ARB meeting minutes, ARB Requests and decisions records that the HOA should keep and provide to home owners?

I think that's a solid "yes".

Having said that, a lot depends on how the HOA and management company have kept records in the past. For instance, I know if you made a request like that here in my HOA you would be met with, "Of course you can see those records," followed a week later by, "We don't know where the records are."

Review FS 720. If they want to be sticklers they can require your request to be in writing and sent USPS certified mail. And they can charge you a "reasonable" amount. Again, it's in the statute.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Our MC keeps our files and every unit in our condo building has its own file. so It wold be easy to find a record of ARB approvals for my unit and the PM probably would not charge me anything to review that record. But this kind of record keeping might vary a lot.

ARB approvals for a certain kind of tree might be harder to find and depends on the filing system.

HenryD3 (Florida)
Posts: 49

Posted:

The HOA is incorporated. We are subject to Florida 720.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I don't really see what the problem is - you asked the board if you could see the exterior changes requests related to your home and any request related to this bismark tree. They said to contact the property manager and you might have to pay. So what's the problem - are you honked off because you were told to call the property manager (maintaining HOA records is part of what they do) or that you might have to pay?

If you want copies of EVERY change request related to your house, some of those could go back several years (you don't say how old your home is), so some of these you could get right away and the others may need to be retrieved from an off-site location - those are the ones you might have to pay for because it takes time to get that stuff, which I think is reasonable. Once you get copies, you might want to store them in your own records so you don't have to do this again.

As for the tree, why not just pull out your CCRs and read them to see if you need prior approval to plant something - if so, file the request and see what happens. If you did that already and the answer was no, file an appeal (I would hope the details would be in your denial letter or perhaps the CCRs themselves). If there's a process and you haven't taken advantage of it, why not?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

HenryD3 (Florida)
Posts: 49

Posted:

SheliaH
There is not a problem. What I was trying to learn is if the ARB Requests/Decisions are considered official HOA documents and as such are required to be available to the homeowners.
I have heard back from the Property Management company that advised me

"Things were done a little differently at times when XXXXX was still on the board. Since our office (Property Management Company) doesn’t typically do committee meetings, there’s some possibility of some being missing. ….The suite next to our office is our storage of files, so anything previously sent in previous years items would be stored there. With that said, there’s been some gaps in process in years past."

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Well, now that you know where the records are - and there are gaps because previous boards did things differently, go ahead and ask for records pertaining to your home and see what's there. You don't say how long you've lived in your home, so you may want to start with five years prior to your arrival to see what records do exist.

You may also want to ask the Board if it has a formal records retention policy. This can cover a number of issues, such as what stays permanently vs. what can be tossed after X number of years, what documents homeowners are entitled to and how to request them, archiving records, charging for copies, etc. If you're not on the board, this could be something you can volunteer to research to see what could be done, so there's consistency and current/future homeowners will know where they stand.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HenryD3 on 12/16/2019 6:15 PM
"Things were done a little differently at times when XXXXX was still on the board. Since our office (Property Management Company) doesn’t typically do committee meetings, there’s some possibility of some being missing. ….The suite next to our office is our storage of files, so anything previously sent in previous years items would be stored there. With that said, there’s been some gaps in process in years past."

The statute makes it clear that the HOA has to keep records. The board can pass it off on the prop mgmt company all they want, but the board is ultimately responsible. Not the property management co. "We don't do committee meetings." Feeble excuses.

Send a written request certified mail return receipt requested. Read the part of FS 720 where if the HOA does not make the records available within 5 days then YOU are entitled to $50 a day in damages (up to a $500 limit).

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Were I the PM, I would invite you to our office and let you go through all past records.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

I’m thinking pushing with letters for committee information, if it is disjointed, or partially populated, will, in the end be wasted effort.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GeorgeS21 on 12/17/2019 5:11 PM
I’m thinking pushing with letters for committee information, if it is disjointed, or partially populated, will, in the end be wasted effort.

I agree.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

The Florida Statutes require an HOA to maintain official records, including, "All other written records of the association not specifically included in the foregoing which are related to the operation of the association."

Whether that "other information" originates with a committee or the board or the property manager or anyone else, the association has to maintain it as part of its "official records". Otherwise, that will be $50 a day, please.

"My committee ate the ARB requests" is not a defense. With that said, I agree many HOAs maybe won't have that information even though they should. $50 a day, please.

HenryD3 (Florida)
Posts: 49

Posted:

The Property Management company advised me today that there are known gaps of records, where the Past ARB Chair and HOA Board President, did not document many decisions but had them handled via phone calls.

I asked if the ARB meeting minutes were available and she offered the last 11 months but noted that February 2019 was not available, she does not know if they were taken or lost.

The house was built in 2016, the community started in 2004. I bought the house in 2018.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Those decisions must be made at an open and noticed meeting. More lawbreaking.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Earlier you said:

"There is not a problem. What I was trying to learn is if the ARB Requests/Decisions are considered official HOA documents and as such are required to be available to the homeowners."

From the responses you have received it looks like you got the answer. You also know that poor or sloppy record keeping may leave gaps in the records that they have. I'm unclear on what your ultimate goal is.

HenryD3 (Florida)
Posts: 49

Posted:

John
I did get my answer from the Board and Property Management company. The records about my house were very limited with the ARB approval of a tree island in my lawn. We have been warned not to expand the mulch area when we have been gardening, yet the documents do not show dimensions that were approved.
Having received violation notices for improper plantings I am now working to compare our violations with neighbors but have since been told that violations are not public records and it is not possible to know what has been violations for others.
We are looking to solve our problem with the HOA but searching for a new house.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HenryD3 on 04/11/2021 2:49 PM
John
I did get my answer from the Board and Property Management company. The records about my house were very limited with the ARB approval of a tree island in my lawn. We have been warned not to expand the mulch area when we have been gardening, yet the documents do not show dimensions that were approved.
Having received violation notices for improper plantings I am now working to compare our violations with neighbors but have since been told that violations are not public records and it is not possible to know what has been violations for others.
We are looking to solve our problem with the HOA but searching for a new house.

Searching for a new house is probably a good idea as it is obvious you do not like to be told what you can do in this HOA even when you agreed to abide. My question is do you expect things to be different in another HOA? I think the issue is you, not them.

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