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JoyceW6 (Virginia)
Posts: 3
Posted:
We are a 44-unit townhouse condo association located in VA that is 25 years old and in the process of having our Engineering Consultant issue a RFP for community roof replacement for the Spring of 2020. Our 2016 Reserve Study has a budget of about $170K for roof replacement, but it is estimated the project costs will be about $200K to $250K - so an overage of $30K to $80K.

Current Replacement Reserve balance is $383K and Operating Reserve is $44K. Also, we have Retained Earnings of $48K with total Association annual assessment of $195K.

As Treasurer, I informed the Board at our 2020 Budget meeting, that we could likely cover an overage up to $30K from funds by increasing the 2020 condo fee and up to $20K from Operating Reserves. However, if the overage is above $30K, we would likely require a special assessment. Well to say the least, I got no support for a special assessment and one Board member said we can charge the entire project to the Replacement Reserve since there were sufficient funds in the account. He does not seem to be concerned that this would create a shortage of funds for other replacement reserve projects in the future.

I do have a few questions:

1. We have a $3K contract with an Engineering Consultant to issue the RFP, meet with and deal with bidders, and monitor the project for quality completion at $80 per hour. Can his costs be charged to the 2020 operating cost vs the Replacement Reserve funds (esp since we are going to be over budget)?

2. I have set up a new account to help mitigate the over budget roofing project entitled "Replacement Reserve Contingency - Roof Replacement". We are funding this account with the 2020 increase in our monthly condo fees and the funds from the annual contribution we typically make to our Operating Reserve ( will be $0 for 2020 and current balance in Operating Reserves is about $44K). Is this financially acceptable?

3. Do all roofing replacement projects costs have to be funded out of the Replacement Reserve? Or can part of the excess costs be charged to the 2020 operating costs - with any resulting net annual loss eventually being offset against our $48K in Retained Earnings? Or better yet, can we transfer a portion of the Retaining Earnings directly to the newly established "Replacement Reserve Contingency - Roof Replacement" account?

4. Am I correct that we cannot fund a significant budget overage from the Replacement Reserve, but must find another method for funding the overage? Or is it totally at the Board discretion to fund the entire over budget costs form the Replacement Reserve (and the deficit for future replacement projects obtained by increasing the annual contribution to the Reserve Fund in future years)?

I am trying to do what is financially correct - but I have no HOA Accounting expertise. So would appreciate to heard from other Condo Association Board members how such a situation has been addressed at their communities.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
We are a 44-unit townhouse condo association located in VA that is 25 years old and in the process of having our Engineering Consultant issue a RFP for community roof replacement for the Spring of 2020. Our 2016 Reserve Study has a budget of about $170K for roof replacement, but it is estimated the project costs will be about $200K to $250K - so an overage of $30K to $80K.

Current Replacement Reserve balance is $383K and Operating Reserve is $44K. Also, we have Retained Earnings of $48K with total Association annual assessment of $195K.

As Treasurer, I informed the Board at our 2020 Budget meeting, that we could likely cover an overage up to $30K from funds by increasing the 2020 condo fee and up to $20K from Operating Reserves. However, if the overage is above $30K, we would likely require a special assessment. Well to say the least, I got no support for a special assessment and one Board member said we can charge the entire project to the Replacement Reserve since there were sufficient funds in the account. He does not seem to be concerned that this would create a shortage of funds for other replacement reserve projects in the future.

I am no financial expert but my initial blush is pay the new roof cost $250K ot of the Replacement Reserve thus leaving the Replacement Reserve at $133K plus your Operating Reserve of $44K leaves you with an overall Reserve of $177K. After all, something like replacing the roof is what a Reserve Fund is for.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Some general comments:

* Re: simply paying for the entire thing out of the reserves, your state laws may have some requirements on how reserves are funded and spent, which may make this idea a non-starter. (In Ohio we must fund reserves at levels specified in the most recent reserve study unless the membership votes unanimously at the beginning of each year to allow us to go below. So running down the reserves would work until we do the next study, upon which it would catch up with us and we'd have to increase assessments to replace the funds we tapped early. You might check to see if your state has similar requirements, thus eliminating some of your options.)

* A nearby community opted to go for a bank loan rather than a special assessment and to pay off the loan aggressively. Obviously you'll spend more in the long run with a loan, but it may make it easier on your homeowners' finances to handle things this way. Personally I prefer to bite the bullet and do the special assessment, but with interest rates as low as they are right now, a loan wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Again, check your state's HOA/COA laws to see if they say anything about this.

* Getting creative here, if your roofs don't need to be replaced in a single year - were all your buildings built the same year? - you may be able to work out a multi-year contract that freezes costs at current prices (and allows additional reserve income to build up and close the underfunding gap).

* We do have laws in my sate about not tapping the reserves for operational expenses, but I can't recall ever hearing about anything about using operational expenses for reserve spending. I just think that the latter rarely, if ever, happens. You may have laws saying that excess operational funds must be returned to the members, though, so check that first. Using the excess for reserve spending seems like a reasonable and responsible thing to do, but it's making me nervous and I've learned to trust my instincts where money and laws are involved. :-)

One questi: do you have an HOA attorney and would you be able to run general questions like this by him/her for a modest sum? All of your questions really boil down to what HOA or Condo law says, moreso than accounting standards, which is why I'm asking.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Another general comment: when we did our last reserve study, we asked that the data also be put into a spreadsheet. This made it very easy to see if spending down the reserves in one year would cause problems or if income and reduced spending in subsequent years would allow us to recover enough to meet the next wave. Also allows us to do what-if analysis.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Rule #1. Reserve funds can only be spent on capital expenditures.
Rule #2. Operating funds can be spent on any allowed activity, including capital expenditures.

In your situation, my preference would be to move operating funds into reserves, and pay all capital expenditures out of reserves. Reasoning - When you pay capital out of operating funds, you make it harder to make year to year comparisons of your operating expenses.

Under this framework:

Q1 - $3k transferred from operating to reserves - then consultant paid from reserves.

Q2 - Yes, it's financially acceptable. Can shift any portion of the $44k from operating contingency to reserves.

Q3 - You have a lot of flexibility in how you set up operating accounts. Your "roof replacement contingency" account would provide clarity - So sure you can set it up that way.

Q4. Not sure what you're asking. Your reserve study should have provided a cash flow over a 30 year period. Have you done a reserve study recently?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Hi Joyce,

Oftentimes, the estimate from a Reserve Study will deviate from a "real world" project. From experience, I'm not concerned or surprised that your roofing budget is 15%-30% higher than a study document. Honestly, with your self-admitted experience level, you are DOING GREAT!

Question 1: You can charge Engineering fees to Replacement Reserves...and should.

Question 2: This is very transparent but ultimately unnecessary in a tactical sense

Question 3: There's no requirement to covering roofing solely from Reserves...but you should do it this way.

Question 3b: Ultimately, I'd only shift money away from Operating Reserves into Replacement Reserves IF that even becomes necessary. Don't worry over retained earnings. You may replenish your Replacement Reserve before the next true "need" arises on the property.

Question 4: Fund your roofing project using Replacement Reserves. It's not realistic to overly sub-divide your reserves when they're healthy, creating the impression that you're financially "broke" because one project doesn't meet price expectation. Managing Replacement Reserve project blends having that strong financial account + proper timing to execute the projects you need completed.

So....I would pay the roofing cost using 100% Reserve funds and not entertain a special assessment. This would include the engineering consulting fees. I would wait until the end of the current budget year and then have the board determine whether Operating Reserve money should be transferred into the Replacement Reserve. As long as this job even stays at $250,000 - and you carefully manage that engineering firm so you're not overpaying for inefficient service - you are fine in my "take with a grain of salt" and unofficial opinion.

In 12 years of Capital Projects, it is not unreasonable to have cost overruns at percentages you report for your roofing work. It's just disappointing to think you know a good number and real world vendors report otherwise after multiple bids.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
You really can’t make a decision until you have an actual proposal to consider, so I’d wait for that before determining how the money will work. You may find the work can be done in phases, starting with the roofs that need replacement sooner rather than later – that may give you some time to shore up reserves to cover the work in subsequent years.

It sounds like no one was following the recommendations from the 2016 reserve study. The numbers are helpful, but estimates at best, due to inflation, changes in code, increase or decrease in other budget line items and so on. It may be helpful to bring in your reserve study specialist to review the numbers and suggest options.

When it comes to reserves, one thing to remember is that they have to cover several major repairs and replacements in the common area and not blow it all on one project. You may think the other projects won’t be an issue until 10 years from now, but this stuff has a habit of cropping up within the next five or less. If you think you’ll have a shortfall for this project, you may need to consider getting a loan or asking homeowners to approve a special assessment (thus creating another set of issues).

Since you don’t have any HOA accounting experience, you might want to check out the community Associations Insititute (CAI) website. It has lots of educational materials on a variety of HOA subjects, including budgeting, and they’re not that expensive, although they’re cheaper if you’re a member. Consider looking around and getting a few books so you’ll get more insight into the problems and tips on best practices. There may also be a CAI chapter in your area that offers seminars on HOA budgeting issues you can attend.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JoyceW6 (Virginia)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Hello Kelly and Others,

Thank all of you for your comments - extremely helpful. Great to know that it not unusual for communities to experience significant overages in the reserve study estimates for major projects and that such overages can be funded out of the Replacement Reserve. Accordingly, any deficits in the fund balance will eventually be considered when the Reserve Study is updated every 5 years and an increased amount computed for the recommended annual contribution to the Replacement Reserve account. Actually, our Reserve Study is scheduled to be updated this year - so will be good timing.

As previously stated, I have no HOA accounting expertise except what knowledge I have gained as Board Treasurer for the last four years. However, I was a Federal auditor for 30 years and a CPA, so have a sound knowledge of financial management and accounting. Honestly, I am quite surprised at the number of duplicate or improper payments made by our Management Company as well as the lack of any processes to ensure the most cost effective contracts and insurance policies for the Association. I monitor payments monthly as well as request a year end report of all payments made by cost category to more easily identify duplicate payments. When I first became Treasurer, I reviewed all the Association's insurance policies for reasonableness of coverage and costs. Ensured the 8 flood policies were consistent in $$ coverage and increased the deductible from a $500 to $5000 per building which lowered the premium by several hundred dollars. The former President and I worked on clarifying an ambiguity in the insurance provisions of our Governing Documents which resulted in a 40% reduction in the Association's Master Property insurance policy. So it is amazing what savings can be accomplished if Board members are active, but then of course we are both retired and had the time.

After four years on the Board, I am truly applauded at what little the Management Company does. They just pay the invoices and made no effort whatsoever to ensure that the billed work was even properly completed. With regard to issuing RFPs, there is no effort made whatsoever in providing any specifications or details in the Scope of Work - which is why we are engaging an Engineering Consultant to develop the RFP and monitor to ensure quality work compliant with the technical specifications. We are a water front community on the Chesapeake Bay and need the most sound roofing system possible to withstand the frequent high winds.

With only 44 homes, it is difficult to get 5 owners to volunteer to serve on the Board especially when many owners only use their homes on a seasonal basis. Our current President likes to defer to our Management Company to handle all matters regardless of how poorly things are done or not done. We paid an electrical contractor a down payment of $12K in March 2019 for a community light replacement project and very little work has been completed to date. The Management Company has been ineffective over the past 9 months in getting the contractor to perform, but the President still believes that we should allow them to handle it. Guess it does not bother the President that the Association is the one sustaining the loss. Time for me to step down when I do not agree with how Association business is being currently managed.

Joyce

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Joyce

You mention you are 44 unit condo. How much do you pay your PM per month, $440-$660 per month or about $7200.00 per year. How many actually are electrical engineers or roofing experts. I can put together a RFP based on the wants and needs of the association, but it is the Board that make the decision on what they want.

There are some PM's that have that expertise and they work for large communities or high rise and have a rather large staff and make $150,000.00 a year. For a project you have, you going to need a project manager or two at a substantial cost. It would be reasonable the manager you have has 10-15 like size properties and makes about $36K-$48K a year.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Following up on the Management Company issues, a PM can provide a wide range of services from simple bookkeeping only up to full service management of the property. If your PM isn't doing something, it may be because their contract didn't require it, or they're not being kept up to snuff by the board, or they're incompetent. Any PM should understand that their continuing contract depends on their performing as required, and it's the board's job to convey this message.

And some PMs just need more hand-holding and oversight, unfortunately, which you may or may not want to provide. A former manager of my community once said, in relation to one of our contractors, "If I have to babysit you, you don't work for me." May be a good rule of thumb to apply to managers as well.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I agree with Mark and Cathy - the property manager works at the board's direction, so if he/she isn't doing what you want, you need to talk with your board colleagues. You said the current president likes to defer to the management company, but why haven't the rest of you said anything? I suspect, everyone else lives off-site and unfortunately, you get an "out of sight, out of mind" vibe with people when they don't see or live with the problem. That's also why you have trouble getting other homeowners to volunteer to serve. I live in a townhouse community and we've had the same problem for years (and some of the off-site owners live across town!)

Yes, you can step down because you don't like the way the association's being run, but you'd still be a homeowner. Unless you're willing to cut ties completely by selling your home and letting the community fend for itself, this inattention from others could bite YOU in the ass sooner or later. No one will care for your home the way you do, so in order to protect your investment, you may need to have a come to Jesus meeting with this president and the other board members (and possibly the entire community). with so many people living out of town, it's time to come up with a more effective way of addressing association business (e.g. conference calls and emails). Just be sure all the homeowners are kept in the loop with periodic reports. Posting board meeting minutes on a website homeowners could access would be a start - if they don't bother to educate themselves, at least you tried. Good luck!


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JoyceW6 (Virginia)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkW18 on 12/12/2019 4:02 PM
Joyce

You mention you are 44 unit condo. How much do you pay your PM per month, $440-$660 per month or about $7200.00 per year. How many actually are electrical engineers or roofing experts. I can put together a RFP based on the wants and needs of the association, but it is the Board that make the decision on what they want.

There are some PM's that have that expertise and they work for large communities or high rise and have a rather large staff and make $150,000.00 a year. For a project you have, you going to need a project manager or two at a substantial cost. It would be reasonable the manager you have has 10-15 like size properties and makes about $36K-$48K a year.

Yep - we pay about $800 per month to our PM. Wow, do managers really only make $36K-$48K a year - that is low pay and explains why they are essentially just administrative staff pushing paper with little knowledge of sound contracting processes and absolutely no engineering knowledge. You are correct that if the manager were making $150K annually, we should expect more. Being such a small HOA - our choices are limited.

As I mentioned before, our community is on the bay front - so we have learned that we need to request the use of stainless steel deformed/barbed nails for reinstalling any siding and roofing shingles that blow off. How many times can you tell the PM to specifically include this requirement in all relevant repair request and they never remember to do so. It is absolutely no fun to have to babysit the PM, but if needed, the Board either does it or it is the Association that suffers the adverse consequences. Which is what our current President is doing - leaving it totally up to the PM. After a month after requesting our PM to obtain an invoice from a contractor for extensive repair work completed this fall before the books are closed at year end, I finally called the contractor myself and got the $7k invoice issued the next day. Really, why go thru the PM, if it only takes a minute yourself to do it??

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