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RobertW31 (New York)
Posts: 41
Posted:
Hi, I am pretty sure some of you have implemented changes in rules, policies that help combat or limit climate change. I would like to learn what you have done. 110 unit Townhouse comunnity in upstate NY. Thanks.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
An Association is limited in it's authority based on the covenants and applicable statutes.

Typically an HOA has the authority is limited to maintain common areas and common elements along with approving or denying exterior changes to the private properties that are within the Association. Condominiums likely have additional authority.

Ignoring any debate about climate change (which I think we all should do), what is it you think an Association has the power to adopt that would affect the climate?

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/07/2019 3:51 AM
An Association is limited in it's authority based on the covenants and applicable statutes.

...

Ignoring any debate about climate change (which I think we all should do), what is it you think an Association has the power to adopt that would affect the climate?


Off the top of my head:

* rain-sensing irrigation systems

* landscaping products that minimize damage when they end up in the local water shed

* landscaping that is appropriate to its environment: for example, drought-tolerant plantings in drought-prone areas, lush plants in areas that get a lot of rain

* use of solar lighting in the common areas

* one thing we probably can't do is restrict grass cutting to off hours when ozone levels are high, since homeowners would squawk if this work happened during non-business hours

One issue that I see is that many of these environmentally friendly practices will be lower cost over the long term, but may be higher cost in the short run (eg. rain-sensing irrigation systems). Since many HOAs are strapped for cash and tend to manage short-term, trying to get people to think long term can be a tough sell.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
-- Check to see if any of your state's recent statutes, regarding energy efficiency, now override your HOA's covenants. In some states residential solar energy is now a property right, and HOAs can no longer prohibit solar panels.

-- If your covenants prohibit solar panels and your state's statutes are silent on the point, consider amending the covenants.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 12/07/2019 5:38 AM
-- Check to see if any of your state's recent statutes, regarding energy efficiency, now override your HOA's covenants. In some states residential solar energy is now a property right, and HOAs can no longer prohibit solar panels.

Outside air drying of clothes prohibited in our documents, but no longer enforceable under state law.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Print your rules and by-laws on recycled paper. ;-)
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
This is more of a “green” question, than a direct climate change question, even though the two topics do overlap at points.

Electric lawn mowing and trimming equipment?

Rainwater recycling for common and/or all properties?

Insulation audit and follow up of common and/or all properties?

Limits of concrete or asphalt?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
We have done nothing, nada, zippo and I see more of the same unless forced to do something.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
80 unit townhouse community. Single water meter for entire community.
Initiated cost saving measures in 2013-15.
Saving more than $10k and 1M gallons each year.

Also made modifications to 30+ year old storm water system. Should add a bit to life of HOA-owned roads.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
We haven't done anything. Even if there was something we could do, if it's not authorized in the CC&Rs we couldn't do it anyway. Ain't nobody burning coal in their furnace here anyway.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It isn't that black and white. Even Eco-friendly technology changes. Plus these changes need to be reflected in your CC&R's like solar panels or rain barrels. The location of solar panels can vary. The type of rain barrels can be different.

So I support all kinds of eco-friendly ideas and practices. Just know it should also be modified in the rules no matter what your HOA chooses.

Former HOA President
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/07/2019 1:00 PM
Even Eco-friendly technology changes. Plus these changes need to be reflected in your CC&R's like solar panels or rain barrels.

Since when?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Because it is a change to aesthetics to the HOA...

Former HOA President
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
So if I change the color of our entrance sign to red the color needs to be specified for me to do it?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Be reasonable. Talking about allowing the look of solar panels on the roof or type/size/color of rain water barrels. I know people who have rain barrels that look like Whiskey from Jack Daniels. (Don't live far from the place that makes them). So not sure how well HOA member would react to the look of a large whiskey keg in the front yard.

Solar panels they may want to have on the back roof or unseen from the street. Which is kind of ridiculous if the sun shines on the other end... However, solar panels are not exactly attractive. Believe I do have a neighbor that has them painted brown to match their roof color. So they blend in better than a huge kitchen stove rack...

So yes I believe adapting such ECO technology should be spelled out in your HOA documents. Just like the old satellite dishes... Remember the ones that were the size of a small car? Many HOA's regulate the appearances or where to install those as well.

Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
here is no doubt that associations are going to have to modify/rethink things as technology changes and people become more aware of environmental issues. Rather than fight such, learn to embrace/control the inevitable or it will be forced down your throat at a cost.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Reducing pollution is a good goal, but I'm not sure how you expect to stop the earth's climate from changing which happens naturally for millions of years before humans existed.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Oh, don’t start.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 12/07/2019 5:57 PM
here is no doubt that associations are going to have to modify/rethink things as technology changes and people become more aware of environmental issues. Rather than fight such, learn to embrace/control the inevitable or it will be forced down your throat at a cost.

Good point. Better to investigate solar and establish standards for the community than to get caught flat-footed when the first request comes in.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 12/08/2019 5:23 AM
Posted By JohnC46 on 12/07/2019 5:57 PM
here is no doubt that associations are going to have to modify/rethink things as technology changes and people become more aware of environmental issues. Rather than fight such, learn to embrace/control the inevitable or it will be forced down your throat at a cost.

Good point. Better to investigate solar and establish standards for the community than to get caught flat-footed when the first request comes in.

EV charging stations are starting to cause discussions. Who install? Where Installed? Pay for the electricty?
PaulJ6
Posts: 990
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertW31 on 12/07/2019 3:13 AM
Hi, I am pretty sure some of you have implemented changes in rules, policies that help combat or limit climate change. I would like to learn what you have done. 110 unit Townhouse comunnity in upstate NY. Thanks.


I am not aware of a HOA doing this, but corporations can become certified as "B corporations" or at least become "B corporations" under NY law. This gives the corporation the right to consider the environment in making decisions--in effect, instead of having legal duties just to owners, boards can consider the environment in making their decisions.

This would give a board some cover when it makes decisions that are pro-environment, and would take away some residents' rights to complain.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I think it’s great if your community is thinking about taking steps to become more environmentally friendly. No one person can tackle climate change alone, but If everyone did a little bit, it could add up. Doing things to reduce the amount of junk in landfills, reduce or eliminate the use of pesticides that can run off and ultimately wind up in the drinking water supply, may help the community save money in caring for the common area – and that always gets people’s attention.

AugustinD noted some states have passed laws prohibiting HOAs from enacting rules forbidding solar panels, so at some point you may want to discuss some of your proposals with your association attorney because there may be some city/county ordinances that may prohibit certain moves. For example, some people want to rip out the lawn and replace it with more environmentally-friendly plants, but others think they look like weeds or can harbor vermin if not kept under control. As for the solar panels, a town north of me is having a debate right now because a homeowner wanted to put several solar panels in his yard. The HOA doesn’t address the matter, but some of the neighbors are ticked off, saying they’re concerned about property values.

Cathy and George have some great suggestions to start off with – I’d start with seeing what could be adapted to the common area first and then run a poll by the homeowners to see what sorts of things they’d like to see or are considering, and review that against the CCRs. Look for some sort of environmental organization in your community that might be able to send in speakers to educate homeowners about the pros and cons of certain. If you don’t have one, try whatever agency is in charge of trash pickup – even establishing some sort of recycling program would be a good idea, especially if it saves the community money. Good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
If anyone is interested in EV charging stations, that HOAs must permit them (under most circumstances) is well-established in CA. Visit davis-stirling.com, and scroll the Main Index to EV, etc., tabs. All of your questions should be answered--this isn't new--and sample Archit,. Guidelines, state statutes, etc. are available to give anyone some knowledge about this topic.

And, yes, CA is one state, ca. 2018, where HOAs cannot forbid solar panels on roofs--even if common area-- that service a single unit. We have about a dozen of these, but no Owner has been interested yet. And such an owner would literally have to accept all responsibility for "their" roof's future maintenance. (Most of our roofs cover 25 stories of 200 units so are common area with equipment, etc., on them.)

Again visit davis-stirling.com for sample ARC suggestions and also the statutes themselves.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
One thing we have to keep in mind is we are not all in the same association. We vary from small, standalone patio homes in SC (such as mine) to multi high rise buildings in CA (such as Kerry's). Our concerns, guidelines, laws, etc can be quite different. Elevator. What is that? Pickleball Courts. What are they? Forget about snow plowing. Alligators and fire Ants I know a bit about......LOL
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
My point in citing the references is that they apply to all kinds of homes. There will, obviously, be different muni codes, requirements, etc. in different HOAs and different states. The references are a way to get some beginner knowledge on the two topics.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
No one person can tackle climate change alone, but If everyone did a little bit, it could add up.

Man is pretty amazing, but its not capable of changing the climate of a planet. It has changed throughout history and will continue to change.

The poles are going to reverse soon, we are not capable of stopping that either.

Nor stopping solar flares.

Again, I agree pollution and conserving natural resources are important, but I disagree we have the power to change climates up or down.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Steve,

You couldn’t help yourself, huh?

What nonsense.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 12/08/2019 7:13 AM
Posted By NpS on 12/08/2019 5:23 AM
Posted By JohnC46 on 12/07/2019 5:57 PM
here is no doubt that associations are going to have to modify/rethink things as technology changes and people become more aware of environmental issues. Rather than fight such, learn to embrace/control the inevitable or it will be forced down your throat at a cost.

Good point. Better to investigate solar and establish standards for the community than to get caught flat-footed when the first request comes in.


EV charging stations are starting to cause discussions. Who install? Where Installed? Pay for the electricty?

I think the jury is still out when it comes to state or local legislative bodies compelling common interest communities to install EV stations. Considering the amount of electric service needed for each EV charger is 30 amps. The cost of the install including the drop fee the utility changes to trench and install electric service could bankrupt some HOA's.. Devils advocate, lets say technology changes, solar panels are incorporated into the vehicle and vesicles self regenerate their energy as they're driven, that would render the EV charging stations useless and a potential waste of money.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
So far as I've heard, no entity is trying to force HOAs to install charging stations. In CA, in most cases, an HOA cannot prevent an Owner from installing one at their own expense, with ARC approval, following state statutes, and, of course, some arrangement to pay for the electricity.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Recycling seems to be more and more a waste of time. My county lost its recycling plant early this year after it burned down, so beginning next year the county entered into a contract to send its recycling to a facility one county away. For which the county residents will be on the hook for an additional $200,000 a year. Unfortunately, every county in Florida has a mandate to hit certain recycling goals imposed by the state of Florida.

Such a waste. Recycling is a hoax.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Geno,

I strongly disagree ... your version may not be working.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Version of what? The article I linked is one of many reports on recycling that have come out in the last year or two. Ever since China stopped buying our recycled paper and plastic most of it ends up in landfills anyway.

The vicious cycle of stupidity continues.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Again, I strongly disagree ... about the binary statements you have made.

Recycling is most assuredly not a hoax.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
Recycling is most assuredly not a hoax.


Research where your recycling goes after it leaves your house.... you will not be pleased. Its true, ever since china stopped importing recyclables, the market has fallen apart. Once towns were paid for recycling, now they have to pay money to get rid of it. And yes..... much of it is going to landfills...... after you spent so much time separating it. Why? Its cheap to send it to a landfill vs doing anything else with it.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
I know one very large company that has recycling bins with separators next to trash cans all over the place. Everyone loves to recycle because its the right thing to do. Little does everyone know, it all goes to the same trash bin at the end of the day. Nothing is recycled, but it makes people feel better.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Not all recycling program are failures - you have significantly overstated.

I am appalled you would be so negative.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 12/11/2019 6:11 PM
Not all recycling program are failures - you have significantly overstated.

I am appalled you would be so negative.

Its obvious you have no idea where your recycling goes.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
It is obvious you are incorrect.

It is also obvious you have missed the point of the obsolete necessity to make recycling programs successful.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 12/11/2019 6:23 PM
It is obvious you are incorrect.

It is also obvious you have missed the point of the obsolete necessity to make recycling programs successful.


So tell us where yours goes......
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
ECUA MRF ... even the rednecks of Escambia County, FL figured out it was important.

Were there issues? Sure. Did they get worked? Yes.

Is it flawless? No. Will there be continuing problems trying to balance cost and utility. Sure.

Is it overwhelmingly important that we try to find ways to deal with the waste? To me, it is.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
ECUA MRF ... even the rednecks of Escambia County, FL figured out it was important.

Were there issues? Sure. Did they get worked? Yes.


A quick google search shows ECUA is just throwing recyclables in the landfill anyway. No buyers. So Escambia residents are being charged higher and higher extra rates to have their nice yellow recycle bins to recycle and it goes in the landfill.

As I said..... where is it going? Landfill.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
And a ECUA employee just got caught sealing $510,000. That will be passed on to you too.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Right now we have three choices.....

1. Pay more to recycle with no guarantee those items won’t go to the landfill.
2. Pretend to recycle.
3. Don’t recycle.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
even the rednecks of Escambia County, FL figured out it was important.


Doing a little more digging..... looks like Escambia County (Pensacola) pays the ECUA $45 per ton to pretend to recycle, then ECUA brings it to the landfill and pays them $20 per ton.

What were you saying about rednecks figuring it out? Your paying $25 extra per ton for someone else to toss it in a landfill when you could be saving money by hauling it to the landfill yourself and skipping ECUA.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
You’re just behind on the reading and angry.

Not to mention way off topic.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Geno may not be impressed with the recycling program in his community, but at least they have one. In my town, people have to pay extra to buy a special bin for recycling, plus an additional fee to the county, so the participation rate is very low. There’s been some discussion recently on changing the program to encourage more participation.

One program I support was set up to hire ex-cons, and they’ve been very successful at keeping them off the street and less likely to go back into crime. Most of the stuff they recycle is electronics and after they strip everything down, the metals are sold to other companies.

Recycling alone won’t resolve everything and there will be hiccups along the way, but anything that can reduce the amount of trash that goes into landfills should be considered.

“You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you. What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make” – Jane Goodall

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 12/12/2019 6:40 AM
Recycling alone won’t resolve everything and there will be hiccups along the way, but anything that can reduce the amount of trash that goes into landfills should be considered.

I agree with that. The thing is, reycling doesn't really reduce what's going into landfills anymore. The recycling industry is only sustainable if there are buyers for the recycled waste.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Geno,

Again, I find your broad brush strokes too broad - binary, even.

How could recycling, even if not “profitable,” not reduce the amount going into landfills?

Every community, county, state is desperate to make it work - the easy way is to recycle and sell the recycled material for a profit. Next best is to break even. Then to charge to recycle. All, and others, are being considered and worked.

Clearly, less must be going into landfills, right?

But my this is off the OP topic, right.

If you continue to post on this here, I will respond.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Yes, people are doing a GREAT job recycling. Then the market changed........once it goes to the recycling centers, there are no buyers, so it goes to the landfill.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Sheesh ... every pound not going to a landfill is a good thing.

Your turn.

I’ll wait and then respond.

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