Major Elevator Problems in high rise

Hi again. Need some advice. Our Florida high rise condo (28 stories) has 3 elevators, one of which has failed inspection and is essentially permanently out of commission. The other 2 elevators are always having mechanical issues (40 years old or so), and this week reached a crisis level where no elevator could be called to our high floor over many hours stretching over parts of 2 days. This was finally fixed, but again today we are down to 1 elevator. On Monday- Friday, one of the 2 "functioning" elevators is mostly occupied for commercial use (construction companies), deliveries, further taxing the elevators and wait times, particularly when only 1 elevator is working. For many hours this past week, my 90+ year old Mom had no way to access an elevator (until the last issue was repaired). The Board is floating ideas about the very delayed and much needed elevator replacement project, which is necessary and will take over 2 years to initiate. What are my options at this point?? I am inquiring more from a safety and recourse perspective during this period prior to elevator replacement in a few years. Thanks.

Gerry

I expect the association is well aware of the situation but does not have enough money to properly fix the issue like new elevators.

You cannot get blood out of a stone.

40 year old condo. Many millions to replace 3 elevators (just our building, 2 others!!), Boards over the years have been kicking it down the road (but discussing it all the time). Grossly inadequate reserves. Piecemeal repairs for last decade, City just shut down one of the elevators, leaving us struggling with 2 with frequent intermittent issues. Repair guys were there again this week. They seem to think situation is very bad. My concern is how to survive the next 2+ years, and recourse (not financial, just how to ensure the best outcome). Is it unreasonable to suspend or limit use of the designated service elevator (one of the two remaining) which is used nonstop by contractors/workers who hit the stop button, tie it up for extended periods of time (not to mention further wear and tear). To me, it is a safety and health issue for a 90+ year old to be unable to leave a higher floor, or get to a condo in a reasonable amount of time. This should have priority over routine renovations or other elective uses. Also, is there anything to be gained by contacting the City? I am not trying to create problems, or have the building condemned, but it truly is an emergency situation when one cannot take 20+ flights of stairs.
With regard to blame, I think the homeowners are victims of their financial state, and Florida post hurricane costs and damage not anticipated or easily budgeted for. The buildings demise started after a hurricane in the early 2000's, which led to new roof's, cooling tower repairs, and many other expenses, many of which were not fully covered with insurance. Then exploding insurance costs, and repair costs with new guidelines. Assessments were inadequate and yet below the financial abilities of many homeowners. Other projects were troubled for various reasons.

John and Augustin, you are right. And even though there will be assessments and monthly increases to fund the elevator project, the bidding companies and engineers say it will take 2+ years. We are talking about 9 total 28 story elevators. Major project. I'm just trying to figure out what is reasonable to ensure safety and quality of life prior to this. Contact the City? Limit commercial use/ moratorium on new construction projects until the elevators are done, whatever ideas are reasonable. We think about moving, but prefer not to at this point.

Y, moving is easy way out for sure. Since all elective home improvement projects (like a kitchen redo) require permits and approval, it seems that a moratorium would free up an elevator for significant periods M-F. Or, specifically only allow move-ins on certain days, same with commercial use. Again, my premise is that safety and fair quality of life should have priority given markedly reduced elevator capability.

For sure George. And that will happen. The question is, what proactive steps can be done to give a high floor person (or anyone who can't take stairs) the best opportunity to survive the 2+years until the project gets done. Short of moving.

Well, I hadn't thought of that- like boarding an airline flight. No, wouldn't work. I was thinking of proactive ways to reduce elevator usage, and commercial use disrupting resident use at a time of crisis. I would like to see a hierarchy of approved elevator usage times/days, weight restrictions being actively reviewed by security. Specific days and times to schedule moves or supply deliveries. If we have 1 elevator working M-F, it stops for extended periods of time on the ground floor to load all sorts of materials, workers, doing elective work. We sit forever waiting, or in the past week, for some 16 hours with no elevator. A crisis should lead to crisis rules. No new projects, grandfather in old ones. Schedule move ins when one elevator is monopolized. These aren't normal times, and should not be treated as such. Just my take.

Y, good points. We have a security gate with guards, they do a fantastic job of preventing normal deliveries like appliances, emergency repair personnel like plumbers and electricians, etc. They would just have to be trained to also prevent illegal operations. You're all right, I should list the place this week.

Well it sure sounds like past board of directors really screwed up BIG TIME. You can band together some owners and sue the association. You could possibly get a settlement from the D&O insurance carrier and if you prevail insist that that check go to replacing the elevators. I don't know what your cap is on your D&O insurance. but I assume it should be north of 2 million. You dues are going up regardless..

Sue? That will take years, even to settle. Horrible idea.

Paying money to lawyers instead of the elevator? LOL.

Yes, it will take long. If the provided info is accurate, actually over 2 years to see the first elevator completed. That’s why I’m trying to solicit reasonable game plan ideas to survive there 27 stories up averaging one elevator (vs 3). Besides limiting commercial use, other ideas like bungee cords, parachutes, Uber eats, etc. PS. In this building, stolen TVs will probably go up.

Agreed; and since underfunding reserves requires a very specific voted waiver, the owners HAD to know that there was going to be a shortfall for maintenance. At this point there are 2 choices: 1) special assessment, and increase in regular assessments to bring the reserves in line; or, 2) loan, and increase in regular assessments to bring the reserves in line.

A couple of years ago I walked the association I was managing through the refinance of its mortgage. The entire process took about 7 months (in reality 9 months due to Hurricane Irma pushing the closing back). So, there are no "quick fixes" in this situation.

Shes 90. Wont be there too much longer due to mother nature. Maybe 2 more years before shes is in a assisted living home?

Gotta decide if its worth paying a $25k special assessment and not be able to live there anyway, or leaving now while its worth the most. Because when the special assessment hits, people will put units up for sale like crazy. Lowering everyone's sale price.

Y. Good points. It could be a fire sale. We just got a $75 increase and people are going ballistic.

Nothing to disclose. The HOA has not decided what to do. It could use reserves, loan and not increase dues, etc..... Basically what I'm trying to say is, since nothing is official, there is nothing to disclose.

Since you stated early on in this thread that the other 2 elevators are having issues, here is what I'd recommend if I were the CAM managing your building. Get those 2 elevators repaired and in good working order NOW! Because if the fire marshal comes in and discovers that you have an elevator out of service and the others are not working reliably, then the fire marshal is very likely going to deem the building unsafe and forbid occupancy. Special assessment necessary to cover the cost? Call a member meeting and let them know the facts --- either do this or you might have to live somewhere else.

-- I think your board ought to pay a few thousand dollars for a licensed reserve fund analyst to look at everything; complete a reserve study; and advise you on how much money will be needed and the best way to pay for the elevators. This will help give compelling proof to many, though not al. (Most people, including board members, do not understand the details of Reserve studies. Some people will read the Reserve study summary and understand the situation is dire.)

-- What are even the chances your board will agree to either a large special assessment or taking out a loan? Is there hope?

I can’t give you an exact amount, but I would guess fairly low so far as our monthly dues have been very low. Around $500/month, was around $375 17 years ago when we bought. We had an $8000 assessment about 5 years ago, which many rolled into their monthly. And still talk about it, since the project was never completed. That’s a whole other story.

I suppose those who do not understand how dire things are will get a hard lesson in the next few years or maybe much sooner.

From your wonderful detail, I imagine the pricing of the condos sort of factors in the likelihood of an enormous special assessment at some point. If I were interested in buying a condo at a low purchase price in hurricane-vulnerable Florida, then I think I could easily live with the special assessment. After all, I paid less because said assessment was likely. What I could not live with are (1) the financial illiteracy of the board and candidates for same and (2) people making large essential expenditures, directly affecting safety and habit-ability, into a political football. The latter two things would weigh on me heavily and subtract mightily from my enjoyment of Florida-living. Add in a 90-year-old mother living in the same condo and my concerns for her. As has been suggested, I would not buy there. I think I would prefer the stress of moving my mother and myself to the next few years of uncertainty and likely great inconvenience.

Having been a part of the care team or the POA for a few elderly relatives, I see your point. Yes, moves throw an elderly person in the early stages of dementia or more way out of kilter.



I think what you suggest is an interesting option. I wonder if the essence of any recent reserve studies could be interpreted this way as well. In this vein, it is not uncommon for condos to be converted to apartment buildings, via a developer buying out all (or nearly all) the owners. Rents often do get high enough in certain locations that developer-investors come swarming like sharks.

But I am betting your board would never consider investigating a proposal where all units agreed to be bought out.

Gerry, interesting. Truth to power, maybe your condo complex is an excellent medium-term investment for someone who does not have to live there. Buy one or more units. Ignore the board's and membership's ramblings. Maybe call state and city inspectors to see if they will declare the one building un-inhabitable . (Taking away as much control as possible from these amateur, and necessarily political, Board members might be best.)

How far behind are the elevators in the other two buildings? If all the buildings can be shut down within five years, developers may start circling, offering a good price compared to what the investor paid today.

I wonder if CAI has published studies of condominiums going belly up. I see condominiums declaring bankruptcy does happen now and then.