I Don't Know What To Think

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

I don't know what to think anymore of our PM, I feel I'm being a bit prickly, but I feel these things need to be completed

I don't want to get exactly specific, but we have a vendor that part of their duties is completing a specific task on or about certain dates in the calendar year.

This task is codified in the NRS and if not performed a government body can issue a fine to the homeowner. Since our CC&R provide that this task is to be performed by this vendor as part of their routine duties, this task is not being done on said time schedule. An owner presented a question to the PM about this task. The owner completed this task themselves only to discover that the vendor undid what the owner completed setting up the owner for a potential fine from a governing body.

The PM's response to the owner was well, the vendor has some lead way and they don't have to complete this task on the dates laid out in the revised statutes.

Is the PM lacking in duty? I feel the vendor should be performing this task as prescribed..

I don't want to see an owner receive a fine from a governing body, but if in the event they are fined and this task that caused the owner to get fined is supposed to be carried out by the association per the CC&R's
I feel this is opening up the board and the HOA to liability.

What are your thoughts?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Where is your board? THEY hired the contractor and I would think the CONTRACT would specify when the work should be done. If it doesn't, someone needs to go back and revise that. Otherwise, if the work isn't being done when it's supposed to be done, the board should direct the property manager to find out why.

Remember, the property manager works for the association, not the other way around, so the BOARD needs to act accordingly - and homeowners should hold them accountable if they don't. In this case, I think the vendor should reimburse the owner for the expenses in getting the work done and refrain from issuing any fine.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

LetA,
I hope I am not the only one hear that could not follow what you are trying to tell us. Is this some National secret that you have in your HOA? Certainly you can give us a little more to go on so that we are not all guessing what your issue is about.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LetA on 11/21/2019 9:02 PM
This task is codified in the NRS and if not performed a government body can issue a fine to the homeowner. Since our CC&R provide that this task is to be performed by this vendor as part of their routine duties, this task is not being done on said time schedule. An owner presented a question to the PM about this task. The owner completed this task themselves only to discover that the vendor undid what the owner completed setting up the owner for a potential fine from a governing body.

NRS = Nevada Revised Statutes, right?

First, if the CC&Rs say the owner is not to do this task, then for the homeowner to go ahead and do it is bad judgment. Liability and trespassing issues arise, and not in the homeowner's favor. You say you do not want to be specific. But if the task involves a safety issue and a bonded vendor is needed to do it, then I do not blame the HOA or vendor for 'undoing' the work. Presumably the vendor re-did the work and did not merely 'undo' it.

Second, in the event a state or municipal agency is paying attention, then I believe the homeowner can legally force the HOA to pay any fine the state or municipal agency imposes.

Third, you might call the state or municipal agency in charge and find out how often it fines for the particular infraction. If it does fine regularly for the infraction, you could even explain the situation and ask if the homeowner would be fined, or the HOA would be fined.

Fourth I know it's frustrating when a federal, state or municipal agency is lax about enforcing the law. But I have learned it is common. It is the price of keeping taxes low. These agencies often simply lack the budget and staffing to do what the law requires them to do.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM19 on 11/22/2019 7:48 AM
LetA,
I hope I am not the only one hear that could not follow what you are trying to tell us. Is this some National secret that you have in your HOA? Certainly you can give us a little more to go on so that we are not all guessing what your issue is about.

I agree.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 11/22/2019 9:01 AM

Posted By LetA on 11/21/2019 9:02 PM
This task is codified in the NRS and if not performed a government body can issue a fine to the homeowner. Since our CC&R provide that this task is to be performed by this vendor as part of their routine duties, this task is not being done on said time schedule. An owner presented a question to the PM about this task. The owner completed this task themselves only to discover that the vendor undid what the owner completed setting up the owner for a potential fine from a governing body.

NRS = Nevada Revised Statutes, right?

First, if the CC&Rs say the owner is not to do this task, then for the homeowner to go ahead and do it is bad judgment. Liability and trespassing issues arise, and not in the homeowner's favor. You say you do not want to be specific. But if the task involves a safety issue and a bonded vendor is needed to do it, then I do not blame the HOA or vendor for 'undoing' the work. Presumably the vendor re-did the work and did not merely 'undo' it.

Second, in the event a state or municipal agency is paying attention, then I believe the homeowner can legally force the HOA to pay any fine the state or municipal agency imposes.

Third, you might call the state or municipal agency in charge and find out how often it fines for the particular infraction. If it does fine regularly for the infraction, you could even explain the situation and ask if the homeowner would be fined, or the HOA would be fined.

Fourth I know it's frustrating when a federal, state or municipal agency is lax about enforcing the law. But I have learned it is common. It is the price of keeping taxes low. These agencies often simply lack the budget and staffing to do what the law requires them to do.

The CC&R's don't state that the owner can't perform this task, merely it is a task that is performed by one of the contracted vendors. It is not a safety issue nor does it need to be performed by someone who is licensed and bonded. I want to avoid having the HOA be on the hook if in the event homeowners receive a fine from said governing agency.

I personally never heard of this regulatory agency issuing monetary fines to homeowners, but you never know when someone gets a bug up their yoohoo and wants to enforce.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 11/22/2019 4:23 AM
Where is your board? THEY hired the contractor and I would think the CONTRACT would specify when the work should be done. If it doesn't, someone needs to go back and revise that. Otherwise, if the work isn't being done when it's supposed to be done, the board should direct the property manager to find out why.

Remember, the property manager works for the association, not the other way around, so the BOARD needs to act accordingly - and homeowners should hold them accountable if they don't. In this case, I think the vendor should reimburse the owner for the expenses in getting the work done and refrain from issuing any fine.

It is not the board that will fine the homeowner it is a government agency that would fine the homeowner.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM19 on 11/22/2019 7:48 AM
LetA,
I hope I am not the only one hear that could not follow what you are trying to tell us. Is this some National secret that you have in your HOA? Certainly you can give us a little more to go on so that we are not all guessing what your issue is about.

Believe me, I would like to be direct to the punch and be specific. In the meantime turn on the tap and enjoy a glass of cool sparkling water

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

OK, I’m out.