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BettyR1 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Where can I find laws pertaining to publicly posting names of tenants and unit number outside their building in the State of Florida? I thought this was a privacy law issue doing so. I don't want us to be fined.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The law of common sense. This is about the stupidest thing ever heard. Why in the world does one need to publish this information publicly? The PUBLIC information a HOA would publish would be in regards to Liens/Foreclosures in a local public news source. (Usually the local newspaper in the legals section). That is because it's part of the process of notification.

Otherwise if there is a need to take the "Public shaming" route some HOA's practice in for non-payment of dues, then it's still within the HOA community.

Plus a Tenant is NOT a HOA member. So there is no need to shame them for not participating in any of the HOA's dues paying or violations. Violations and non-payments are on the Owner/HOA member.

What is the purpose of this as we don't even allow it here?

Former HOA President
BettyR1 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Melissa I don't think you read my question. I am not talking about shaming anyone. I would never vote to allow this on any circumstance. I am asking where I can go to find laws pertaining posting names and unit numbers on the condo building. This gives the general public access to where someone lives. No question is a stupid question. I don't want opinions on this question I would like to know where to find the legal answers.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Not sure the question makes sense ... perhaps I’m reading it wrong.

You can find out which units are not owner occupied by looking at tax records to see where tax notices/mailings go.
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Betty

You have to forgive Melissa, as it's another day of getting up on the wrong side of the bed.

Nowhere did I see shaming as part of the reason for posting names.

I have seen a number of condo building where the names of the tenant were on a board in say the lobby. Also I have seen names on entry gate systems where an outside visitors has to call to be let in to the complex.
BettyR1 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Hi George I will explain. We have a list of our tenants names posted on a board with the unit they live in so anyone visiting can see where our tenants live. I would like to know if anyone knows where I can find "legal" information for posting such information.

This has nothing to do with the question but the reason is I don't want us to post this information due to the fact one of our tenants have been stalked. Please don't respond to the stalking that is a whole different issue. I only want to know if someone knows where to find laws pertaining to the posting of unit and name information. I am not sure if it is a violation of the privacy law or not.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
How do you feel about YOUR name being posted by others? There is your answer.

Former HOA President
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Again, forgive Melissa as her football team lost over the weekend.
BettyR1 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
I completely agree. This might be why she is a former president. I don't think she can understand the question. I for one do not want names posted or names on mailboxes only to protect our people. I just want legal information before I present it to my president. I know we can go to our attorney for answers but if I was hoping someone knew a website with the legalities of this.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Betty,

I usually draw a distinction between owner and tenant ... that probably is where my confusion began.

Are you using tenant to mean anyone living in the neighborhood/condo?
BettyR1 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Sorry, we all own but we call ourselves tenants. This could be very confusing and I am sorry.
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
I would think that an option would be offered as to whether you wanted your name on any board or sign, or not.

I have seen building numbers with apt. numbers on an outdoor sign, but never names. However, I have seen names listed on a buzz/ in board in a lobby. Again, posting the name should be an option.

Look to the Rules and Regulations of your HOA for any guideline, but, No, I’ve never seen a law that governs names on address signs.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
The law may say nothing about this, but you need to consider liability. If someone were to be injured or even murdered by a stalker who was able to find them because of the sign (for example), the association may find themselves sued because of it.

So if this isn't a legal issue (i have no opinion on that) it is definitely a liability issue. There are other ways to provide the necessary information to those who are entitled to have it without compromising privacy and safety.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
If you want to know what the law says or doesn't say, you need to check the statutes (which I don't think exist for this.). But if you want to look for yourself, you could start with you city ordinances and/or county laws. Most are listed on a government website, so off to Google you should go and the use the search bottom for all its worth. If necessary, do the same for your state statutes. Or ask a private attorney.

I still don't think you will find anything specific, so let's look at what prompted your question. You say a tenant is being stalked, so if he or she hasn't already done so, a talk with local police is in order. In my state, I believe there is a program where victims of domestic violence can get post office boxes at a reduced rate or for free. This way, the mail wouldn't go to the house for someone to go through the mailbox to see if the person lives there. Organizations that assist domestic violence victims may also have some ideas.

As for the house numbers, sorry, but I would think those have to be posted. That's so that first responders and police know where your house is located so they can get to you quickly. Delivery people and service providers, like electricians, need to know the house numbers so they will go to the right place.

When I lived in my apartment, I didn't have my name on the door, but the number was there, so people who needed to know could find me. In some places, you can simple out the last name on the mailbox - strangers don't know if Jones is betty Jones (who lives alone), Mike and Mitch jones (who live together), or the Jones family (consisting of 5 people.)

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
OK ... if there is nothing in http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=display_statute&URL=0700-0799/0718/0718.html, then I would revert to some basic concept, like “opting in” when posting names.

Thus allows owners to speak for themselves.

A conservative approach, that might save time, effort and money would be to simply eliminate names from any COA funded signage.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Look I have been stalked (More than once...) So I don't want my name posted publicly. Don't think it needs to be PUBLIC. An outside address is all that is needed for emergency and delivery purposes. It is up the owner to decide to put up a name. It's NOT the HOA's responsibility.

My question again is Why is this something that needs to be done?

Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Oh, I read right past the OP's comment that one of their residents has been stalked. In that case I amend my answer: not only is posting names on buildings irresponsible, it's unconscionable. Any board members who vote to approve it should be recalled and replaced.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Thank you Cathy. It does not make sense to make PUBLIC someone's name. You don't even need it on a mailbox or on your home. There is a difference between PUBLIC and WITHIN the HOA itself. Public means someone walking by can view it. Keeping it within the HOA means only sources may be membership/board/MC.

When you have been stalked you never get rid of that fear. No matter if the person is in jail/prison. You always have to deal with it. It's up to you to do the best to keep your information private as much as possible. I don't even use my real name posting here or on other social media sites.

Don't trust the police either with their resources for "protection". They are very limited. I even got blamed for having someone stalk me! A person I never met and had talked to on the phone as a "wrong #". Ended up leaving death threats on my phone. Seems this person did this to other women. He found my address and I lived alone in an apartment at the time. If my name had been on my mailbox, they could have found me. A complete stranger. (The another stalker was an ex who I had to move and leave EVERYTHING to get away from).

So I do not feel this information needs to be made PUBLIC. That is completely irresponsible on how to treat someone's privacy.

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Are you on the Board, Betty? This is a condo building, right?

Can you tell us why the names & unit numbers are posted on a board? Is this board inside a secure area? Or outside where any passerby can see it?

Was that a board decision? Or?

With others, I very much doubt there's any law about this.

Outside of our downtown high rise condo building is a "entry-phone" that visitors use to scroll to the name of the person they're visiting. The visitor types in the code# next to the resident's name to reach the unit. The code# is NOT the condo unit #. The resident then presses 6 to open the exterior door & give them access to (only) the resident's floor. Food/pizza delivery is the most common use.

I agree with others that the potential liability associated with having actual resident's address available to the general public is scary.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I think what Beety is enquiring about is a building directory such as:

1A George Smith
2A Mr & Mrs Robert Jones
3A Mrs Grace White

I assume the directory would be beside the building entryway.

While I would be all for it, there are many people who would not be for it.

Left up to me, I would publish a list of all owners along with their name, address, and phone number but that is me.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BettyR1 on 11/11/2019 5:03 AM
Where can I find laws pertaining to publicly posting names of tenants and unit number outside their building in the State of Florida? I thought this was a privacy law issue doing so. I don't want us to be fined.


I think the only Florida statute that may be relevant is the Florida Information Protection Act (FIPA). See section 501.171 of Florida Statutes, http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String&URL=0500-0599/0501/Sections/0501.171.html .

I checked the Florida HOA and condo statutes and found nothing relevant.

You can always get an attorney's advice.

Personally I would be unhappy with a condo or HOA who put my name on my building or otherwise posted my address for the world to see. Some stalker-type individuals think such a listing is an open invitation to their stopping in any old time and bothering a person.
BettyR1 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Thank you AugustinD, I too looked in those places and did not see anything. I don't want it posted but would love to know if it's a privacy issue. I guess I will have to go to our attorney. I was in hopes someone might know the legalities of it without having to do so and I could confirm by a website.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
What does it matter if it's a law or not? It's just not a good idea to do overall. Privacy is privacy. I have a right to it.

Former HOA President
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
I believe the OP was looking to determine legal reference of this circumstance, not preference, best guess or right vs wrong...
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 11/11/2019 3:24 PM
I believe the OP was looking to determine legal reference of this circumstance, not preference, best guess or right vs wrong...

Did you find something George?
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BettyR1 on 11/11/2019 5:46 AM
Melissa I don't think you read my question. I am not talking about shaming anyone. I would never vote to allow this on any circumstance. I am asking where I can go to find laws pertaining posting names and unit numbers on the condo building. This gives the general public access to where someone lives. No question is a stupid question. I don't want opinions on this question I would like to know where to find the legal answers.

Are you tap dancing around the "publish publicly" statement by implying you want to publish names on some sort of directory on the property?
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
This comes up all the time, and I always answer the same.....

We publish addresses and if they have paid or not. Complete transparency of all income and all expenses. We do not include names, just addresses.

Dont really care what people feel about it, its simply financial data.
BettyR1 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Thank you AugustinD, I also have checked everywhere. I really only wanted to know the law regarding this and can't find anything. I am on the Board and I am going to address this to our Board. I appreciate you searching for the answer as well. I have searched everywhere as well.
BettyR1 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
LetA, tap dancing has nothing to do with the law. I asked a simple question, go back and reread it if you are interested. On a personal note, I don't want names posted with unit numbers. I don't even want parking spaces to be identified who lives where. Personally I feel it is a privacy issue however I was simply asking if anyone knew the law regarding this. I don't want our Association to be in violation of people's personal rights. Fines can be very expensive if you violate.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
As you can see, not everything is addressed in a legal statute and frankly, it’s not always necessary, as some things are a matter of common sense – and I really think you’re overthinking this.

Instead of wondering about the law, why not start with asking the HOMEOWNERS what they prefer, stating you’re concerned about safety? Some may not mind the directory being there, but would be fine with it listing last names only. The people who need to know will know if Smith is Bob Smith, Bob and Mary Smith, or Mike Smith and family.

As for the parking spaces, those are usually identified with a number so the only way you’d know if space #123 is assigned to Mr. Big is if he told you or if you happened to see his car parked there regularly – and then you’d have to know what he drives.If this is still bothering you, you might ask the police or local postmaster what would be most practical.

By the way, most of us aren't attorneys, so if you really want to know answers to legal questions, your best best bet is to ask an attorney if you don't want to dig through the statutes.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkW18 on 11/11/2019 6:03 AM
Again, forgive Melissa as her football team lost over the weekend.

Roll Tide
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
My football team didn't lose. I am not an Alabama fan. There is still Auburn....

Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Something else I thought of -

There will be an ongoing cost to maintain the signage as well as the upfront cost to put up the first batch. Things like this seem to be a magnet for vandalism. In addition, people will move out and new folks will move in, necessitating updated signage. Depending on the nature of the community, this could happen frequently.

So... there is a solid financial reason not to do this, on top of the privacy, safety,and liability issues. "Not illegal" doesn't mean "good idea". (Our attorney even told us to be careful if we decide to publish a community directory and to make it "opt in" only. And that's for a directory that is shared only with HOA members, not the general public.)

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