New Condo HOA Rule - No Working On Sundays

Our high rise condo doesn't permit noisy work by residents or contractors on weekends & on weekdays only 8-5pm.

I think it'd be tough to argue that quiet Sundays are a restriction based on a religion.

To be safe, they could just ban work on both Saturdays and Sundays, since that's in line with common practice and people want to use common areas and other amenities on the weekends.

However, some of your volunteers and board members may work full time Monday - Friday. When else are they going to to be able to take care of their HOA tasks, if not on the weekends? More people are out and about on Saturdays and having rest and quiet time on Sundays (just compare road traffic on those two days if you don't believe it), so a work ban on Sundays fits in with the behavior of the majority. This may have had its origin in religious practices, but we've gone well beyond that by now.

Thanks for the quick responses! Our condo development consists of single story buildings spread out over 40 acres. Most residents are retired, so it's always quiet in the development. We also don't have a pool or any other amenities on the common grounds. With the development being in place for decades, I just find it odd to enact such a rule at this point in time. Trust me, there's more important issues that the board needs address.

We do have board members that still work full-time, so it will make their jobs a little tougher to accomplish - - but not impossible. It was suggested at the meeting to make exceptions for emergency repairs and snow plowing, however, the majority of the board didn't understand the reasoning behind it. I'm glad to hear that this type of rule is common in other condo developments. I was afraid that we were moving backwards, not forward.

I wouldn't read too much into the new rule without first asking the Board for clarification. Why do they want to prevent things being done on Sunday? They say it has nothing to do with religion, but why is the rule even necessary?

You stated that your Board wants to enact a rule that will . . .


I would think that your Board already has complete control of what contractors are working in the common areas at any point. All they need to do is tell contractors that work on Sunday is not permitted. No rule necessary.

Also interesting that they are trying to create a rule that limits when they themselves (the Board) are permitted to work . . . perhaps some sort of Board-level disagreements going on. And limiting when volunteers can volunteer is a little silly as well. Could be some of the only time that those individuals have to do whatever work they are doing. Maybe the Board is trying to get volunteers to stop volunteering.

OK - great.

I think I would consider setting up a small committee to consider the implication, and particularly to poll the community to see what the breakout is, while compiling the basic pros and cons. Put some time into it and develop some statistics to show what the community wants ... broad statements won’t be as helpful as data.

Since it has been so many years, there probably is no hurry.

The Board could also use this time to determine if they are on solid legal footing.

As a kind BTW, almost everyone who disagrees with a particular board’s direction, believes there are better things for that Board to be doing ... remember, in the end it simply comes down to votes. Being businesslike, and working to build consensus for your position will usually yield better results. Most boards can do more than one thing at a time. 🙂

You are very perceptive, ND! I'm new on the board (within the last month). I have been attending all of the meetings over the past year to gain some insight on how the board functions, etc. I must admit that I have walked into a hornet's nest, since the board is very split in their goals/ideas for the development. I've found that most of them are there for self-serving purposes but also loathe one another. The meetings are less than productive and often result in them squabbling among themselves. I was assigned the grounds, which is what I was hoping for since the common areas have been neglected and need to be improved. I'm currently working on assembling a group of residents (i.e. volunteers) to assist with ideas and perhaps help on the grounds. I was caught off guard at the meeting that two of the board members insisted on this new rule. I, too, think it's silly and unnecessary.

The Board doesn't have any policy in place for levying fines. That's why I think having this new rule is silly, since they have no method for enforcing or penalizing a rule-breaker.

I've never heard of a building allowing work on weekends, or in the evening.

So a "no-Sunday" rule is totally fine.

Something to keep in mind: many contractors charge more for evening and weekend service, so your finances can drive the board where it wants to go without actually enacting a rule.

Makes a lot of sense.

If you're going to be using a lot of volunteers, be sure your association carries adequate liability insurance in case someone is "injured on the job" and expects the association to pay their medical bills. Talk to your insurance agent (and do NOT use volunteers for snow removal - you're asking to be sued). Also consider getting signed waivers/release forms from your volunteers, although these won't necessarily protect you 100%.

I checked and our insurance covers medical expenses up to $5000 for volunteers. I don't think this is enough. A trip via an ambulance and a visit to the Emergency department will quickly eat that up. I'll check with the board on increasing the amount. I envision the volunteers will mostly help with planting shrubs, perennials, and maybe weld a paint brush once in a while.

KerryL1 -- I like the compromise that you proposed. Definitely workable. There were 4 board members that voted in favor of the rule. As I mentioned, there's a lot of infighting and posturing with the board members. There was an unofficial meeting a day prior to the official meeting between 4 of the board members. Those individuals voted in favor of the rule. I think of the board as an onion. Lots of layers and a tad dirty.

Oh, they won't be on ladders. When I mentioned painting, I was thinking of our wooden posts for our signage and wooden guardrails. They will always have two feet on the ground.

We do have separate insurance coverage listed for board and committee members.

PA is not an open meeting state either.

But ... this is not about the rights of homeowners to prior notice and attendance at a BOD meeting.

This is about the right of a BOD member to prior notice and attendance at a BOD meeting.

Under our bylaws, any gathering of a majority of the BOD members IS a BOD meeting. And no BOD member can be excluded from prior notice and attendance rights. Are you sure there isn't any provision in your bylaws that would prevent a selective gathering where a duly elected member of the BOD can be shut out? Very odd indeed.

We do not allow and yardwork like grass cutting, edging or anything that is using electrical tools before 9:30am on Saturdays or sundays and after 6pm on those days.

Jen

4 BOD Members meeting is in itself not improper. It depends on what they did and/or did not do.

The four members met the day prior to discuss the new rule that was going to be proposed and passed at the official meeting. So, it wasn't a social event, but board business.

Being so new to the board, I'm trying to play nice, however, I think the unprofessionalism and infighting is unacceptable. I wanted to be on the board to start making some much needed changes/improvements to the development. Now, I'm questioning my own sanity. Lol!

The development is currently self-managed. Would a property management company help with the enforcement of bylaws and keeping the board on task? Or, could it have the potential of just adding another layer to the chaos?

I like that you are picking your battles carefully.
As I see things, you have 2.
- Improving the appearance of the grounds. My impression is that you will be very successful and gain the respect of the homeowners.
- Not allowing other BOD members to hold a meeting behind your back. The rule that you as a BOD member are entitled to prior notice of any BOD meeting is essential to the legitimacy of your organization. I like what Kerry said. I would go a step further. I would demand minutes from that supposed pre-meeting. It was not a pre-meeting. It was a meeting of the BOD. Minutes are required. You are entitled to a record of what was discussed and what was decided. Holding the meeting without you cannot be reversed. But not producing minutes can be reversed. Demand it. IMO, you shouldn't show any weakness on this one issue. If you don't like their response, contact the HOA lawyer directly yourself. Ask for written verification that the supposed "pre-meeting" was in fact a meeting of the BOD, you were entitled to prior notice, and minutes must be produced. If they say you are not authorized to add legal costs, tell them that they are not authorized to hold a BOD meeting without you.


As I said above, you've got 2 important battles to work on. Certainly, you should speak to other BOD members about it, but unless you get support to move in that direction, too much to take on IMO.

Just one comment on this: a PM works at the direction of the board, not the other way around. So the PM would have no right to tell any board members that they cannot meet, and since this small group appears determined to skirt the bylaws, it's unlikely that anything a PM says would stop them.

On the other hand, some external structure may be helpful, but a lot depends on the individuals involved. Are they more of the "go along to get along" or the "nobody tells me what to do" type?

(I still don't understand this group's motivation for having a no-Sunday work rule. As I'd mentioned earlier, they already have a perfectly good financial reason not to have work done on Sundays since many contractors charge more for service calls outside of normal business hours. Surely nobody would argue that paying more is a good idea.)

I'm going to take Option 1 at this time and concentrate on the grounds. I will, however, keep Option 2 in my back pocket. I want to get my feet firmly planted in the HOA board world before I tackle this one. I suspect that there will be more of these meetings in the future. My hope is to slowly make changes over the next year and continue to read this forum to gain knowledge. (I'm so glad I found this site!) When board elections occur next Fall, there will be two openings. Hopefully, I can recruit two competent individuals that will be able to unseat the existing board members.

Thanks, DonaldT4. I like the idea of taking it to the annual meeting for a vote. If the board proposes any additional rules, then I will suggest this idea.