Florida Chapt.720 & 617???

Started by RW1 • 17 replies • 6867 views

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RW1 (Texas)
Posts: 149

Posted:

Does any part of FL Statute 617 "Corporations not for profit" apply to HOA's also.
(Since our HOA is also not-for-profit corp.)

Yes, I am familiar with Chapt.720 thus the "also" part of my question.

Thanks in Advance,

RW1

NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447

Posted:

FL 617 is refers only to the organization of a "not for profit organization". It speaks of the way the Articles of Incorporation should be worded, the filing formats, purposes and scope of the organization. There are no guidelines for the operation of a HOA in 617.

Fl 720 are the state statutes that apply to HOA's only and the laws of the state, for HOA's only. Fl 617 is your first step. If the articles have been filed, it ends there, then you will follow FL 720.

RW1 (Texas)
Posts: 149

Posted:

Thank you

RW1

RW1 (Texas)
Posts: 149

Posted:

The title of 617 is not "Organizations" but "Corporations" not for profit.

RW1

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Florida requires all "Not for Profit" homeowners associations to be filed under Fl St.617. If they fail to do that, then they fall under a regular corporation and will be taxed as such.

Therefore, 617 is your "not for profit" statute to register under. Fl statutes 720 is how your association must be governed and rules to follow. This is for H.O.A.s Condos follow St Statutes 718

StacyS (Florida)
Posts: 19

Posted:

Our Florida HOA was created in 1975 under chapter 617. (We are MARTA compliant) We have had legal representation that says our HOA is not subject to the 720 Statutes because 1. Our HOA governing documents do not include lien rights and 2. Our HOA doesn't own any common property. Any comments?

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

I would question where you fall as for Fl. Statutes. Our Association was formed in 1999, prior to the 2000 Chapter 720 being enacted, which governs all H.O.A.s. Prior to 2000, H.O.As were under 618 then, which is the "not for profit corp" statutes. We had to file an amendment to our Articles of Incorporation to insure that our documents were current with Statutes.

Do you pay assessment dues? If you do, you are required to be either a not for profit or a profit corp. You have absolutely no common property? Not even an entrance?

StacyS (Florida)
Posts: 19

Posted:

Donna,
Our HOA is a not-for-profit corporation & we pay annual dues. As of Dec 2006 all of our governing documents were reviewed by legal counsel. Counsel deemed our documents are all in order and were legally recorded. Yes, it's true that our HOA doesn't own any common property.
I replied to the original question, because there are some owners that saya the 720 Statutes apply to our HOA, while counsel says otherwise. I am just looking for other thoughts on the subject.

NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By StacyS on 09/18/2007 11:02 AM
Our Florida HOA was created in 1975 under chapter 617. (We are MARTA compliant) We have had legal representation that says our HOA is not subject to the 720 Statutes because 1. Our HOA governing documents do not include lien rights and 2. Our HOA doesn't own any common property. Any comments?

What is "marta compliant". I know MARTA compliancy if it pertains to the federal disability act.

NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By StacyS on 09/18/2007 1:01 PM
Donna,
Our HOA is a not-for-profit corporation & we pay annual dues. As of Dec 2006 all of our governing documents were reviewed by legal counsel. Counsel deemed our documents are all in order and were legally recorded. Yes, it's true that our HOA doesn't own any common property.
I replied to the original question, because there are some owners that saya the 720 Statutes apply to our HOA, while counsel says otherwise. I am just looking for other thoughts on the subject.

Stacy, you and your attorneys are correct. If you have not filed your Article of Incorporation under FL 720 then you still fall under FL 617, if you file under 617.

There are still some of you left, I guess. I thought most HOA's and Condos would have changed there corporation filings under FL 720. It, 720, does not have the clearest in definition of the statute, but definitely better than 618.

StacyS (Florida)
Posts: 19

Posted:

Nancy,
I apologize for the delay in response to your question on 9/18/07 about MARTA?
It is an acronym for Florida's Marketable Record Title Act.
Yes we are one of the few HOA's who haven't updated our governing documents. That's how this whole issue started about whether we are governed by chapter 720 or not. Thanks for your input.

LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526

Posted:

Good day all............while attending the By law commitee meeting on saturday I asked when was our HOA going to file an amendment to our Articles of Incorporation , was told there was no need to do it at this time...... I questioned why and of course was never given an appropiate answer...here is the problem.....Our subdivision was incorporated in 1975 way before any 720 FSS......The original owners are both deceased as far as I understand , and to date no new papers have been filed with the State of Florida.....WE filed the MRTA in 2003, our working on amending our by laws, working on amending our Deed Restrictions, but yet nothing on our AOI.......My question is how do I get the BOD to understand that this is important and needs to be done..Any help will be appreciated..lindaC

JohnM3 (Florida)
Posts: 288

Posted:

all HOA's WERE INCORPORATED UNDER 720. Believe ME WHEN ITS TIME FOR SOMEONE TO SUE OR SOMEONE GETS ANGRY AND WRITES A LETTER TO THE STATE GOVT THEN YOU WILL FIND OUT THE REAL TRUTH. This IS PART OF THE REASON WHY I HAVE A GREAT DISTASTE FOR LAWYERS THEY ASSUME TO MUCH.
REMEBER THIS FACT YOUR DOCS AUTOMATICALLY GO DEFUNCT after 20 years. Your lawyer only files 2 docs and everything goes back to what it was before the anniversary. Its a $100 job. Tell them to find out what is your anniversary date for refiling corporate docs. Sorry I am not the best typist and have yet figured out how to do spell check. My HOA laptop has windows xp some one help out an ole not old but ole man please. Sorry folks finally looked at the top of the page.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

John,
Just to clarify this for you--NOT ALL H.O.A.'s were incorporated under S.S. 720. Prior to the year 2000, there was no 720. All "Not for Profit Corporations "doing business as H.O.A.'s were filed under 617. All H.O.A's in Florida still are also required to be under 617(which are our Article of Incorporation) but use 720 as our rules of operation. Look in your documents and see that you are articled under 617.

And all documents do not read that after 20 years, they must be renewed. Ours state 25 years so it is how an individual developer set it up.

KM1 (FL)
Posts: 62

Posted:

Hi all, resurrecting this post as I am still seeking clarification on same issue.

Our HOA incorporated in 1975 and is working with CCRs amended in 2008. Several members raising questions about inconsistencies among our articles/bylaws versus FL 2009 Statute 720, and now throwing 617 in the mix, I'm even more confused!

Scenario 1: FL Statute Subsection "720.303 Association powers and duties; meetings of board; official records; budgets; financial reporting; association funds; recalls.--(1)POWERS AND DUTIES.--...The powers and duties of an association include those set forth in this chapter and, except as expressly limited or restricted in this chapter, those set forth in the governing documents...."

Question 1: Does that mean our 2008 CCRs that address subjects named under SS 720.303 (e.g. meetings, records, budgets)supersede 2009 FSS? If this particular SS was updated in 2007 (referenced at line "History.--s." at end of 720.303) are our 2008 CCRs violating existing statutes and should have been updated to match?

S2: CCRs provide BOD mtg notice only be 24 hrs posted in conspicuous place. Reference 720.303, "(2) BOARD MEETINGS.--(c) The bylaws shall provide for giving notice to parcel owners and members of all board meetings and, if they do not do so, shall be deemed to provide the following: 1. Notices of all board meetings must be posted in a conspicuous place in the community at least 48 hours in advance of a meeting, except in an emergency...." Also, FL SS 617.0822 "Notice of meetings.--(1) Unless the articles of incorporation or the bylaws provide otherwise, regular meetings of the board of directors may be held without notice of the date, time, place, or purpose of the meeting." Notice was provided within 24 hrs with signs taped to a place used before in the past (mailbox) to notify of meetings, emergency water leaks, cocktail parties, etc. Sign simply stated it was a BOD mtg, place, and time. Some members cite FSS Ch 720 and feel notice should have been 48 hrs in advance, and should have stated what the meeting was for.

Q2: Which law supersedes all and why did the other two not prevail? Is the superseding law determined by whichever doc had the most current update?

Brain hurting. Any relief would be appreciated!

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

KM, your profile lists you as being in Texas in which case FL statutes wouldn't apply or do you have a property in FL also.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

KM1 (FL)
Posts: 62

Posted:

Hehehe, roger that, GlenL. From 2006 - 2008 I was president of a TX HOA, and sought advice through HOA Talk. Have since moved to FL (a lot more laws than TX!) and now am committee member and BOD candidate for an HOA in this state. Sorry for the confusion -- I updated "My Account" profile location info last night from TX to FL; however, there must be a delay in the update somehow.

Hoping to get some answers on my previous post. FL statutes are extremely comprehensive compared to what I was dealing with in TX.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

KM,

There does not seem to be a difference in wording between the 2007, 2008 and 2009 in the 303 section so there is no worry there. And most of that chapter will say---"unless the governing documents state otherwise" which means that your governing documents are to be followed. Much of the Statutes are guidelines, not the last and final word.

S2 Your Bylaws require at least a 24 hour notice prior to meetings. The Statute says that "IF" the governing documents DO NOT then the State deems to provide a 48 hour notice. Your governing documents are what you follow. But I ask why would you update the documents to read less than what the State reccomends? This is where HOAs get screwed up with consistancy with State Statutes.

After the year 2000 when 720 for HOAs and 718 for Condos were written, 617 is just incorporation statutes. Much of it was transfered to the 720 and 718 so there is very little differences. You will notice if you read 617, that it is very short and to the point without much detail or description.

So my simple answer to you is that you follow 720 except where an item is only addressed in 617, which will be some incorporation items. (you will notice there are things in there like BOD conflict of interest and governing issues)

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