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TeriQ (Wyoming)
Posts: 22
Posted:
Our Documents state that the Board will create assessments based on the budget. We have had the same assessment for 20+ years. The budget is $21,600... There are now two accounts with $20000+in each. No special assessments have been voted on, ever. How does this happen? Bookkeepers? There is no treasurer for oversight, only the bookkeeper, the Prez's wife.
Riddle me this.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Money in accounts doesn't mean it's not accounted for.

What percent are your reserves funded?
How much should the Association set aside for reserves (per the reserve study)?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
We had about 2K in our savings. It is allowed for an emergency fund or capital replacement/upgrade. I wouldn't say your paying too much in assessments. Believe me it's a nightmare to reduce than to raise... I'd say this was set aside for future needs that never quite happened or no one decided to pull the trigger on to spend.

Former HOA President
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
$21,600 per month, per year???? It sounds like you're not a gated community and very little landscaping to care for.
You really need a reserve study and audit conducted. You don't want to get stuck holding the bag if or when there is a major issue and you are stuck with a 5 or 6 figure assessment because of a BOD foul up.

PS call your insurance agent and add loss assessment coverage to your homeowners policy.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Teri
Assessments are the same thing as dues. Have you been paying due for the 20 years? Typically association money falls in two categories: Operational which is used to pay the day to day expenses such as electricity, landscaping, water, postage, insurance, etc.

Reserves which is money set aside for expected/identified repairs or replacement that will be needed at a future time. As an example replace rotted fences, grade roads, etc.

Their is also Special Assessments which are one time assessments for a defined purpose. Typically owners must approve such an assessment.

Associations can raise the yearly assessment/dues each year and how will be clarified in you Covenants. Some can raise them any amount they want and you get no say in it. Some have a fixed amount they can do (such as 10%) without owner approval.
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
Ask for a financial balance sheet. That should define all the monies in their different accounts. ( checking, savings, reserves, investments, capital ventures, petty cash, insurance deductibles, road fund, etc)
TeriQ (Wyoming)
Posts: 22
Posted:
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa. We have never seen a balance sheet. We have never gotten an accounting. They have never been audited by a CPA.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Teri,

Are you in single family home HOA or a condominium?
What common areas does the Association have (private roads, sidewalks, playgrounds, etc.)?
What services, if any, does the Association provide (trash/recycling, snow removal, etc.)?
Is the Association controlled by a developer or the members?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Keep in mind what an Insurance deductible can be for a HOA. It's not the typical 1k it can be up to 20K. So having that money in the bank can be a good thing if an insurance claim ever has to be made.

Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
What are you worried about the most? Reserves too small? You don't have a reserves at all? Are the common areas not being kept up?

It is odd that you haven't had a few increases in 20 years, but then again, I bet most of your neighbors like it that way and so no one says anything. Remember, the reason rouge boards get away with stuff is because the homeowners don't keep them in check. This also means YOU also share some blame in what's happened.

Start with getting copies of the last 5 years of budgets and pay attention to the line items. What's increased the most over the years? Take your questions to the board and see what they say. While you're at it, look at your documents - what common areas does the association care for? If you don't have very many, that could be why you haven't needed a fee increase.

From this point on, start paying more attention to your board. Turn off the TV and go to a few board meetings and listen to the proceedings. Just because the resident's wife is bookkeeper doesn't necessarily mean there's a problem, although I don't like the optics of it (president and bookkeeper lining in the same household names me nervouse). On the other hand, you don't even know why your budget has stayed the same, so you need to educate yourself

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Teri

To try and help further:

Our Annual Budget has 5 sources of Income:
Assessment/Dues. Obvious what this is.
Late Fees. We do have penalties for late dues.
Legal Reimbursements. From our lawyer when we used him to collect late dues.
Interest - Reserves. Interest from banks holding our reserve funds.

Our Annual Budget has 21 types of expenses
Insurance, Management Fees, Office/Bank Expenses,Postage, Bad Debt, Tax Preparation, Legal,
Social Events, Electrical Repairs, General Maintenance Repairs, Maintenance Supplies,
Landscaping, Feed and Weed Control, Mulch, Landscape Repairs, Flowers, Electricity, Water,
Property Tax, Roofing/Siding Reserve, General Reserve.

112, standalone patio homes, $800 per year dues per home ($89,600.00 dues income per year).

Our 2019 Budget calls for:
$93,500.00 Income
$93,500.00 Expenses

Our largest 4 expenses are Reserve Funding (43%), Landscape (29%), Utilities (12%),
Management Fees (8%) in that order.

Will our Actuals be balanced at the end of 2019? Probably not but from experience, it will be within $1,500.00. Close enough.......LOL

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TeriQ on 10/15/2019 11:36 PM
Our Documents state that the Board will create assessments based on the budget. We have had the same assessment for 20+ years. The budget is $21,600... There are now two accounts with $20000+in each. No special assessments have been voted on, ever. How does this happen?
I am not convinced anything is amiss in the dollar figures. Instead and respectfully, I am wondering whether you understand what reserve funding is. If the HOA is accumulating money to replace a clubhouse type facility or other facility that all members are permitted to use, or has to plan on a full-blown replacement of roads, then some $40,000 being in "reserve funds" does not seem at all out of line. Many older communities aged 25 or more are typically on the cusp of major renovations. In such cases having a reserve fund equal in value to two or more times the annual budget is not unusual.

By the numbers: The $40,000 accumulated over say 25 years amounts to about $1600 per year put into a "reserve fund." With an annual budget of about $21,600, with $1600 put away for "a rainy day" (meaning put into a reserve fund), it sounds like at least dollar-wise, the planning may have been reasonably prudent. Socking away 10% or so of the annual budget into a reserve fund is not unusual. I understand some states even have statutes requiring a certain amount of money be put into a reserve fund. Loans from the VA and FHA even require a certain amount of reserve funding before the buyer is approved for a mortgage for a purchase in a condo.

I echo what others are saying about reserve funds.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 10/17/2019 10:01 AM
From this point on, start paying more attention to your board. Turn off the TV and go to a few board meetings and listen to the proceedings. ... On the other hand, you don't even know why your budget has stayed the same, so you need to educate yourself


How do you know the OP is watching TV? How do you know she is not attending board meetings? How do you know she has not been asking the board questions? How do you know she has not been asking to inspect financial records? You tell the OP to educate herself. After being denied inspection of records again and again, the OP had to file a lawsuit to seek an order for her to inspect the most basic of records. She likely has paid thousands of dollars to a scummy attorney, and this is just for the governing documents review. These are records for which it is clear as day she is legally entitled to inspect at all times in the course of regular business hours.

See http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/271416/view/topic/Default.aspx
TeriQ (Wyoming)
Posts: 22
Posted:
PAYING MORE ATTENTION to the board is the least of my complaints. TV-off-check. Listen to proceedings-check-check. Thank you AugustinD for reading [everything] rather than spew.

Our governing docs are clear. We do not pay dues. We are to pay an annual assessment...... assessed every year. Our subdivision is made up of 50 (originally) now 60 ranchettes 4.7ac-14ac. Some lots border the Salt River. Before purchasing my lot, I combed through the CCR's, asked clarifying questions, was satisfied, then signed on the dotted line. With the boobs on the board deciding they can usurp anything with 'just a vote', tossing protocol to wind; they have bastardized the simplest regulations, trod on personal property rights making all of accountable for the poison/weed killing. Top that off with zero oversight of any jobs performed, and done half-assed.

So until we can see the books, records, papers as defined in CCR's and WY state statutes which we have asked for nearly every year, and been ignored.... not refused..... ignored..... to this point of getting an attorney. We've been pissing in the wind; squatting with our spurs on; huntin' a dead dog; up a crick with no waders; gettin' directions from a blind man; playin' a card game we were dealt out of 20 years ago......
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
May I ask? If the shoe was on the other foot how would you react? What response would you give someone demanding to see the books? Are you sure you'd readily want to turn them over?

For me a HOA runs like if you left your checkbook open on the dining room table. You and your family have access to it. How do you think your spouse or kids want that money spent? Considering each contributes equal amounts. How many X boxes will be in your living room?

Former HOA President
TeriQ (Wyoming)
Posts: 22
Posted:
We do not have common areas, per se. No club House, pool, yada, yada. We have roads that need to be plowed in winter and repaired as needed. Do you pay to mow your neighbor's grass? Do you landscape your neighbor's yard? Do you snowplow any other time than in winter? Do your unpaved roads need grading every few years? Do you pay to control weeds on your neighbor's lot? That's all we do folks, and two items are against the CCR's. Control your own weeds. Bill for plowing when its snowing. TaDaaaa. But our magnanimous board takes it on, then doesn't follow through. We have weeds everywhere, that float into all our property. We have graded roads from July that are pitty and washboard within days of the job being done. Did anyone follow-up.... BS if they say they did.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I understand that the 2 accounts may contain reserve funds and that the dollar figures aren't necessarily out of line with the reserve requirements. But nobody here knows what those reserve requirements are. And there's a good chance that the money is not in those accounts as the result of contributions to the reserves. Until TeriQ finds that out I think there's an excellent chance that the money has nothing to do with reserves at all. Mismanagement over a period of years could very well result in a couple of bank accounts and no one can adequately explain why the money is there, where it came from (and when), and what its purpose is.

TerriQ needs to find out. "Duh, it's for the reserves!" assumes facts not in evidence. On the other hand, "The existence of those accounts indicates something shady is going on!" does the same.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 10/20/2019 12:01 PM
I understand that the 2 accounts may contain reserve funds and that the dollar figures aren't necessarily out of line with the reserve requirements. But nobody here knows what those reserve requirements are. And there's a good chance that the money is not in those accounts as the result of contributions to the reserves. Until TeriQ finds that out I think there's an excellent chance that the money has nothing to do with reserves at all. Mismanagement over a period of years could very well result in a couple of bank accounts and no one can adequately explain why the money is there, where it came from (and when), and what its purpose is.

TerriQ needs to find out. "Duh, it's for the reserves!" assumes facts not in evidence. On the other hand, "The existence of those accounts indicates something shady is going on!" does the same.

To add to Geno's comments, there might be legal and financial considerations involved if the HOA is retaining funds beyond what a Reserve Study would require. Important to dig in and get some details.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

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