HOA Not following Architectural standards CCR's

I've asked this question of other subdivisions, whose jaws drop hearing the lack of compliance. Our Board thinks they can OK any/all plans for building. They ignore stated set-backs and design standards so much that I now have 3 houses in line with my kitchen window. We all have at least 5 acres..... minimum front set-back is 150'..... My home was the third home in the subdivision, in 1997. No HOA existed then, but CCR's did. When I questioned the Developer before buying, he assured me that any reasonable person buying into our subdivision should be able to understand the explicit contract of the By-Laws, DCCR's and article of Incorporation.

Anyone offer help in what to do now?

Is the Developer still owning the HOA? Sounds like they are the ones allowing the violations.

Teri,

You have taken the issue to the courts.

That is typically the final option.

What you can do is help your attorney and locate cases that ruled on seeing the documents.

You are at the stage called Discovery - which is near the very beginning. The road ahead could easily take a year or two, and even then, you might not get a satisfactory outcome.

The judge is not not not going to tell the BOD how to run the place. Which I get the impression is what you are looking for.

You are in a tough spot. Yet, I am more concerned that you are spinning your wheels and spending money that isn't going to provide a desirable result for anyone.

Maybe you can ask your lawyer - If you get documents in the discovery process that prove that the BOD isn't following the DCCRs, what result is the litigation going to yield?

Hoa do not make money. They are only funded by its members for its members. Plus that is to cover its expenses. Sounds like still developer controlled if still building.

We got out of the special meeting requiremenr so we could collect votes easier. Itherwise we could never get enough people to show up at a special meeting to vote. It allowed us to go door to door to get votea.

Do not see any proof of your home value going down if homes still selling.

What records you want to see exactly?

No Sorry. I didn't mean that.

Respectfully, I do not agree with NpS's inference about what is going on in this lawsuit. There may very well be a complaint for failure to share records with members, and the plaintiffs' attorney may have made a motion for summary judgment, or a motion to produce documents. The issue before the court appears to be whether members can see certain records. This is more a question of law than anything else. Meaning discovery may not be all that relevant, and Teri's people are not looking at a trial but instead, they are seeking injunctive relief.

TeriQ, in what judicial district has this lawsuit been filed? Can you share the case number? I want to see if I can look it up and get a better feel for where things stand.

Even better, TeriQ, can you redact the name of the HOA and post the original complaint filed with the court?

Right now the biggest problem might be that so much time has passed, with certain covenants not being followed, that a court might rule these covenants to be abandoned.

Thanks for your interest and help. Wyoming statutes require sharing books & records.... or CCR's require ALL B&R. The CCR's prevail is more restrictive than the state. Your last statement is preferable to us. They are off the rails on more accounts than one. This is the anniversary year of the subdivision, in which dissolving HOA, renewing HOA or re-writing CCR's can be done. The people involved are not nice, control freaks, who think they can make up rules as they want. I did not buy into that. I've been paying into a freakshow for 21 years.

Hi Teri, thank you. I just scoured Wyoming's Third Judicial District web site at https://www.lcwy.org/government/clerk_of_district_court/index.php and related sites. It does not look like there is an online, public case lookup service. (There is in many states.) Typically just a synopsis of the major events in the lawsuit is given anyway. I am going to call the Third Judicial District Court in a bit and see what help the staff can offer as far as viewing the status of the lawsuit is concerned.

Do you have a digitized copy of the court complaint you are willing to share? If so, feel free to email it to me at [email protected] .

It does sound like your attorney is on top of this. It's a longer process than people usually expect. The courts are so backed up. Plus every i has to be dotted and t, crossed, by plaintiffs, defendants, court clerks and judge, and as required by court rules (which comply with statutes and so on). If all this care to comply with the law when it comes to procedure is not followed, then the case be vulnerable to being thrown out on some grounds unrelated to the main complaint.

I'm impressed with your diligence Augustin.

Brief comments on your conclusion. I don't see any way that the process won't be murky.

Even if plaintiffs get a court order requiring the production of documents, that doesn't guarantee that a complete set of documents will be produced.

Plaintiffs may have to go to court again and again with claims that certain documents are missing. Each request can be challenged by the HOA. Each ask can take months to flow through the process of reaching the next court order.

Also, a court could conclude that the plaintiffs' ask is too broad. Many judges look poorly at fishing expeditions. And the HOA's lawyer is bound to argue that that's all there is.

In the end, plaintiffs may not get information that's useful to their cause.

In my earlier post, I suggested that the OP ask her lawyer - If you get documents in the discovery process that prove that the BOD isn't following the DCCRs, what result is the litigation going to yield?

I still think that the OP needs to get a realistic understanding of what outcomes are likely. My concerns were heightened when she said that her lawyer gave assurances that it's an "open/shut case." No such thing IMO. You never get everything you want. And although you might get something, what you get might be satisfactory to your lawyer but not to you.

Above I linked the Wisconsin web site and not the Wyoming web site. (As long as it is after 10 AM in the morning, I think I can spell "Wyoming.") The correct Wyoming web site for the records inspection requirements of Wyoming Nonprofit Corporations is:

http://soswy.state.wy.us/Forms/WyoBiz/NPCA.pdf

See sections 17-19-1601 through 17-19-1605 of the Act.

If I understand this thread correctly, Teri's underlying objections are about HOA building approvals.

At this point, we don't even know what kind of relief Teri is seeking. Forcing the removal or relocation or removal of something that's already built? Monetary damages for loss of a view? But to me, this is the core question - What does Teri want (after she gets the docs)? She hasn't told us.

In my neck of the woods, there are setback requirements. But those setbacks are established by my township. It's up to the township inspectors to make sure that buildings comply. We don't get involved. But there are times when it's unclear how far my township will go when dealing with HOAs. They haven't been consistent over the years. I don't want to begin to guess what Teri's situation is, but that's the point. We just don't know.

In my state, there is 100 year-old case law that says there is no right to air, light, or view - unless it's in the declaration. Other state's may have different or similar laws. In my case, it's not in any statute. You have to know real estate case law.

And what about Teri's HOA Board. Is a judge likely to hold a new Board responsible for the sins of a prior Board. Not likely. Is this going to involve D&O insurance? Don't know.

There are just so many open questions. I am not questioning the right to documents. I am asking what the ultimate goal is - What form of relief is Teri looking for? If the answer is - show me the documents and I'll tell you what I want - that's a fishing expedition - and as I said previously, judges frown on fishing expeditions.

Teri must have something in mind. Forcing removal or relocation - What's the likelihood of being successful on such a claim? Collecting money for some kind of loss - What's the likelihood of being successful with that?

If we had a copy of the complaint and answer, maybe we would have a better picture. As of now, it's very murky to me.

I understand your point. Please consider mine.

Barbara asked a question. Does the BOD have the authority to grant variances? No answer. What are we to assume? Should we assume anything? How would that affect Teri's chances?

You're convinced that Teri is seeking injunctive relief. Ok. What kind of injunctive relief? To get something torn down and rebuilt at another location? Is that a realistic expectation?

I've seen a lot of discovery fights. They can get very expensive and time consuming. And the outcomes are sometimes different than anyone expects. It scares me when anyone says that their lawyer assured them that something was a slam dunk. No such thing IMO.

I think you've done a great job of trying to dig out what you can Augustin. But I've got to tell you, I am concerned that Teri may be blinded by her anger and frustration.

Maybe if Teri gave us a description of which documents she seeks, that would be a start. But corporate records might fit in 5 boxes or 100 boxes. To me it makes a difference.

I think that you and I could get to common ground if we understood the scope of Teri's discovery demand. But we don't. 5 boxes I'm all in. 100 boxes I'm concerned that this is going to get very expensive.

Teri shared a copy of the initial filing of the lawsuit. The (initial filing of the) lawsuit first notes the following, quoting from the covenants exactly:

1.
The covenants require records of all acts by the Board, including Minutes of meetings, and all acts by what appears to be an architectural control committee.

2.
The covenants require that the HOA's books and records shall be available to, and subject to inspection by, all members at all times at reasonable business hours.

3.
The covenants require an "annual review" of the HOA's books by a CPA.

The inital filing then asks the court to --

-- require the HOA to provide all of the HOAs books and records, from 2000 to the present.

-- prohibit the HOA from denying books and records from now to the end of life of the covenants.

-- require the HOA to have an audit of its books done by a CPA.

-- attorney's fees and any other relief the judge deems appropriate yada. [Damages (that is, money) is not sought.]

[I am paraphrasing above.]

The inital filing then asks the court to --

-- require the HOA to provide all of the HOAs books and records, from 2000 to the present.

*** 20 years. Every record. Seriously? What's the likelihood that a judge will approve something this extensive? I can see where a judge might sign an order that requires the HOA to allow inspection as required - but I doubt that a judge would require the HOA to provide copies of every single document. And even if the judge orders the HOA to comply with Teri's inspection request, what happens when Teri shows up to see that a whole bunch of stuff has been redacted. That will trigger yet another legal squabble on what should and shouldn't be redacted. And what about the documents that the HOA hides - Who is going to know whether stuff is missing because it never existed, wasn't saved, or got shredded. Yes, the judge can order compliance. But that doesn't mean that full compliance will take place.

-- prohibit the HOA from denying books and records from now to the end of life of the covenants.

*** Possible, but not a slam dunk. More likely that a judge will issue an order that existing records must be available for inspection. Less likely that a judge will issue an order that future records must be made available for inspection. Courts rarely act prospectively, and I don't see this as one of those cases where they might.

-- require the HOA to have an audit of its books done by a CPA.

*** Ok. Might get a court order for this. But then again, maybe not. What happens when the HOA can't find a CPA willing to take this on? Rules on audits are getting more extensive, especially when it comes to risk assessments. Costs are double or triple what they were just a few years ago. I've been turned down by 5 CPA firms - who can no longer keep up with the auditing changes - and my HOA's books are cleaner than they ever were in 30 years. If CPAs aren't willing to take my HOA on, what CPA wants to take the mess at Teri's HOA on, and what HOA is willing to pay the cost (or do a special assessment to cover the cost)?

-- attorney's fees and any other relief the judge deems appropriate yada.

*** Agree with your yada. Rarely granted in a situation like this. Pie in the sky IMO.

*** So far, I see a potential money pit for Teri. While you might take offense at my use of the term "fishing expedition", there's a bunch of judges I know who would put that label on any request for 20 years of all corporate documents. Judges have backlogs and quotas to hit just like many other professions - They are not there to make things right. They are there to move things along (usually in a year or two).

Spot on Augustin.

END GOAL IS TWO FOLD:
ONE: Fire all board members and officers. Restrict their opportunity to 'serve again' for 10+ years. These people have coveted their positions and been voted in by proxy in absentia. So proxy votes can now go toward new candidates as presented. We have annually re-re-re-re-elected the same people over 20 years, disregarding the numerous members who would have loved to participate. That is the true definition of neurotic, expecting different results from the same people. In 2013, when my husband ran for site committee, I questioned a committee member, to step down to give another a chance. He said he likes being on the committee. Sure, but..... participate, buddy. Seeing the documentation would confirm WHO participates in the process. When asked by me in previous meetings, "had they read the CCR's & State Statutes"..... I queried? "Have you seen how thick they are?" Is the answer from our bookkeeper/treasurer......
TWO: This is our 25th anniversary. Defined in our DCCR's as the time to dissolve, re-write or renew for 10 more years. My wishes are mixed. If we can fire everyone else, the new board might be able to re-configure sensible CCR's going forward.

Thank you for your interest. I know some of you have gone through this already.

Have to agree with you NPs. You can't just randomly fire VOLUNTEERS! They were elected which means a whole different process. Which means voting those people out by majority vote of the membership. You can't put a limit on when someone can run for office again. That's a bit out there. Especially if that rule doesn't even exist.

Not exactly sure again what documents are looking for and the answers going to get from them. If your husband ran for office was he qualified to do so by being on the Title?

What enforcement options does your HOA even have? You can't just fine. I'd like to know what you think is the punishment or process of enforcement to be followed?