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ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140
Posted:
I'm curious what others who are or have been board members would do in this situation.

We've just switched landscape maintenance companies. The old one was doing a poor job and we need/needed a bit of work to bring the common areas back "up to spec". We asked (in writing) the new vendor for an itemized bid on the "repair/clean-up work". There's a reasonable chance we might have had another vendor we've used for individual projects do some of this work. Rather than submit a bid, the new vendor began doing the repair/clean-up work and sent us a bill for their first month of contracted service + a couple thousand for repair/clean-up (not itemized any further than that).

I'm kind of shocked that a vendor who's used to working for HOAs would do this. I'd expect them to be aware that if they expect to be paid for work, the BoD has to have approved the expense / directed the PM to have work done based on an approved bid.

Is this such a breach of protocol that you would fire the vendor? If so, would you pay for the non-contracted work?
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
The way you worded it makes me think you guys sat back and watched him do the work for a month. If this is true, shame on you. Also since the board never approved the contract how can you fire him since he technically doesn't even work for you?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Well they could have screwed themselves. If you all made the cleanup work a separate contract, then they did the work themselves not with a contract.

Do NOT assume those contractors who work with HOA's UNDERSTAND how HOA's work. Seen that before. Must be clear and concise with vendors how your business decisions work. IF they want something then this is the process etc... Even if you have to put it in the contract itself.

Yes, I have dealt with contractors in the past who have gone on and did the work without consultation with the HOA. It was super uncomfortable and hard to be politically correct. Our case we had a great vendor for drainage issues. We had 3 separate bids with them to be spread out over long time period. 1 of the employees took it upon themselves to pull one of the contracts from a file at the company. Showed up and installed a retaining wall. That was NOT a good morning... The employee got fired from the company but we still had to deal with the installation of a 4 foot high brick retaining wall NOT in the budget...

Former HOA President
ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnT38 on 08/18/2019 6:55 PM
The way you worded it makes me think you guys sat back and watched him do the work for a month. If this is true, shame on you. Also since the board never approved the contract how can you fire him since he technically doesn't even work for you?

We're a pretty big HOA (several hundred homes), and with the few of us who would have known it to be an issue working, it was easy to miss that they had people doing more than just cutting grass. Nobody knew they were doing more than that until the bill arrived.
PestY
Posts: 128
Posted:
Was the work necessary ?

Was the work performed satisfactorily ?

Was the price reasonable ?

If yes to all three: What is the problem ?

Other than a miscommunication ?!
PaulJ6
Posts: 990
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ArtL1 on 08/18/2019 5:44 PM
If so, would you pay for the non-contracted work?

I'd want to fire the vendor and never use it again, but before paying or otherwise doing anything, I'd contact a competent lawyer and give ALL of the facts and relevant documents to him or her. There's a risk that you have an implied contract with the vendor and to be "off the hook", you'd need to ensure that you don't.

I'd likely dispute the charge, in writing, but I'd contact a lawyer first.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ArtL1 on 08/18/2019 5:44 PM
I'm curious what others who are or have been board members would do in this situation.

We've just switched landscape maintenance companies. The old one was doing a poor job and we need/needed a bit of work to bring the common areas back "up to spec". We asked (in writing) the new vendor for an itemized bid on the "repair/clean-up work". There's a reasonable chance we might have had another vendor we've used for individual projects do some of this work. Rather than submit a bid, the new vendor began doing the repair/clean-up work and sent us a bill for their first month of contracted service + a couple thousand for repair/clean-up (not itemized any further than that).

I'm kind of shocked that a vendor who's used to working for HOAs would do this. I'd expect them to be aware that if they expect to be paid for work, the BoD has to have approved the expense / directed the PM to have work done based on an approved bid.

Is this such a breach of protocol that you would fire the vendor? If so, would you pay for the non-contracted work?

Been there several times.

When we fire a landscaper for cause, several things usually precede it:
- repeated conversations with the contractor about poor performance;
- ample opportunity for the contractor to cure the deficiencies;
- a lot of complaints from homeowners;
- an internal discussion among BOD members on whether we might have given the contractor mixed messages.

This last point would apply to both the old contractor and the replacement contractor. We have found that when things go screwy, several BOD members can jump in and have separate conversations with the vendor. Some wind up being inconsistent with the BOD's written message. So it's important to know if a BOD member unintentionally acted at cross purposes to the BOD.

Personally, I look at things this way:
- We're under fire from homeowners and I don't want it to drag out;
- If the work done alleviated the deficiency at a reasonable cost (even if it wasn't as inexpensive as it might have been), then I am satisfied with the outcome;
- When we sit down to discuss things in the future, we should make sure that the contractor knows who the designated HOA contact person is. We don't want any further miscommunications;
- If the work was done, I would pay for it;
- I wouldn't fire anyone, and certainly not someone who helped us out of an uncomfortable dilemma.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Art, I'm afraid this is a nation wide issue with landscapers. Just 5 years ago our landscaping cost were very reasonable but there were issues that persisted with the contractor and the then BOD decided to hire a company that once had the landscaping contract on the Las Vegas Strip. That company was a disaster and only lasted one year. The previous board hired another name brand contractor last year and they have issues.

Landscaping contractors here, especially in Vegas are facing a labor shortage. Who wants to work landscaping for $10-$13 DPH when they can be a laborer and get union benefits? I'm sure, you being in Florida you are facing similar growth and construction. As a board member now, how can I face homeowners and go to them with another assessment increase and get even worse results.

Five years ago just for front of home landscaping each owner paid $12.50 per month. Right now it is $23.00 per month. One bid proposal wants $27.00 per month and they will only do front of homes every other month.
It's like that now and the landscapers are supposed to hit every home each month.

I feel your pain, we are all in the same boat.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 08/19/2019 12:07 PM
Landscaping contractors here, especially in Vegas are facing a labor shortage.

It's happening everywhere. Our current landscaper had only 2 visas approved this year, when he got 20 last year for the same workers he has been using for 15 years. It seems that there is no consistency in the way that these visas are being issued.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ArtL1 on 08/18/2019 5:44 PM
I'm curious what others who are or have been board members would do in this situation.

We've just switched landscape maintenance companies. The old one was doing a poor job and we need/needed a bit of work to bring the common areas back "up to spec". We asked (in writing) the new vendor for an itemized bid on the "repair/clean-up work". There's a reasonable chance we might have had another vendor we've used for individual projects do some of this work. Rather than submit a bid, the new vendor began doing the repair/clean-up work and sent us a bill for their first month of contracted service + a couple thousand for repair/clean-up (not itemized any further than that).

I'm kind of shocked that a vendor who's used to working for HOAs would do this. I'd expect them to be aware that if they expect to be paid for work, the BoD has to have approved the expense / directed the PM to have work done based on an approved bid.

Is this such a breach of protocol that you would fire the vendor? If so, would you pay for the non-contracted work?

Hi Art,

You hired the new landscaper to replace the non-performing company and would absolutely fall on your new vendor to tackle the "catch up" work to bring your community landscaping up to specifications. As a long running board member (who's replaced landscapers/grass mowers), it wouldn't be professionally prudent to hire a vendor to solve your challenges and then hire someone else in order save a couple of hundred dollars, especially at a $2,000 price tag. That's not much money for landscaping overhauls.

Your new vendor knows EXACTLY why it was hired and that the old vendor was a failure. They, eager for the new account, tackled your issue w/ expediency.

That said - and if the community is "to spec" - don't allow any more special charges unless the board approves. Up to spec should mean that regular service now keeps everything looking good.

ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PestY on 08/19/2019 4:38 AM
Was the work necessary ?

Was the work performed satisfactorily ?

Was the price reasonable ?

If yes to all three: What is the problem ?

Other than a miscommunication ?!

Necessary: yes
Performed satisfactorily: No idea. I haven't been able to do an inspection yet to see if the things they were asked to bid on doing have been done.

Since they did the work without bidding, and we hadn't gotten bids yet from other vendors, it's hard to say how reasonable the price was.
PestY
Posts: 128
Posted:
By the time you got bids the scope of work would have increased.

I am sure you know we are in the middle of growing season.

The job of a director is to direct and inspect.

? You have not yet inspected the work performed ?

Yet you have time to play on the internet.

4911509
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
I find it incredulous that a company would go ahead and perform work that was simply asked to be bid out. Doesn’t make sense.

Are you sure someone didn’t tell them to “ go ahead”?

Since the OP didnt even look at the work done, I have a feeling that he’s out if the loop, generally.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I think there was a communication gap as well. Discussing what work wanted done may have been conveyed as what needs to be done. I would discuss the HOA process and assign a POC in the HOA. That way the contractor will know if "X" doesn't communicate then don't do it. Even if it's a MC, the MC should know a board vote is needed before making a decision. Atleast that is how it worked for us.

However, I would warn that this could be a friendly enthusiastic mistake or ego. I'd be careful if this is an "ego" thing. Meaning your dealing with someone who thinks they know best etc... If you don't feel the contractor is LISTENING then yes you need to make some adjustments. There are a few contractors who can get a bit big for their pants and lose their ears.

Former HOA President
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Usually there is a set dollar amount that work can be performed without"authorization" but it sounds like this is more than just a few hundred dollars, then there should be an inquiry by the board on why work was performed without authorization.
PestY
Posts: 128
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 08/20/2019 7:00 AM
Usually there is a set dollar amount that work can be performed without"authorization" but it sounds like this is more than just a few hundred dollars, then there should be an inquiry by the board on why work was performed without authorization.

..... why work was performed without proper authorization.

evidently there may NOT have been a POC in place
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ArtL1 on 08/19/2019 2:21 PM
Since they did the work without bidding, and we hadn't gotten bids yet from other vendors, it's hard to say how reasonable the price was.

If you don't have a got-to person on your BOD who has the answer to that question at the tip of her tongue, and if you have to rely on bids to get comfortable with value for services rendered, then you are in trouble. After all, we're talking about landscaping services - something that you probably spend a significant amount of your budget on year after year after year.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

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