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SarahO (Ohio)
Posts: 26
Posted:
Not sure if anyone can help with this debacle. Our developer is just now willing to turn over a common lake,(actually a portion of a river was dammed to create it)and the playground/beach area. Both of these properties are held in the name of the developers company name.
Now that the dam is over 50 years old and well beyond its years and has been in violation of the Ohio Dept of Natural Resources standards for more than the past 10 years, and the lake itself has silted in without ever being dredged due to the fact that this lake also serves as a water runoff retention basin he is wanting to turn over the lake and the beach area to the HOA.
Unfortunately the HOA was never recorded as part of anyones deed and the few deed restrictions that are recorded have been violated many times to the point of being worthless.
Some HO would be willing to take on the lake and beach area if the dam was repaired and the lake dredged,but we cannot figure a way to enforce the idea that this would be common property and all the HO's would need to contribute to its maintenance.
In the past the HOA was regarded as a social organization with dues of $40.per year in a 210 single family home development.there are aprox. 80 homes that currently pay dues and the monies go toward two potlucks per year,one of which is the mandatory HOA meeting and to the maintenance of the park/beach lighting, painting weeding,mowing etc.area which is used mainly by residents off the lake as access and somewhere for kids to play.
As far as lake maintenance the HOA has paid for the stocking of sterile white amurs and copper sulfate treatment to keep the weeds at bay and an aereator.
Also the best offer that we have received from the developer is an interest free 30year loan to pay for the dam repairs,which he expects the HOA to convince everyone to join and take on the $100. per household payment that would be necessary from every homeowner.How big is this guy dreaming???
The HOA feels that some govt agency such as ODNR should be forcing this guy to do the repairs and belated maintenance such as dredging before we take on the property. I would think from what I have read that is the norm but without the funds or the time to sue what recourse as HO do we have?? We are looking ahead and without the assurance that we can enforce everyone to contribute to the HOA since prior to this property turn over the dues was never mandatory how can we maintain and set up a reserve to take care of future expenses down the road? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Did the developers have to put up performance bonds 50 years ago? Most developers do now, check the local tax and regulatory authority.

If the HOA was never recorded on anyone's deed, its a moot issue. He cannot just turn it over to the HOA. The HOA would have to outright purchase the lake. From your description of the condition of the lake, it may be an expensive proposition. The HOA in a transfer will most likely have to bring the lake up to compliance of the state and county codes.

This situation needs some legal investigation as to what the actual procedures would be. It is much to complicated an issue for the HOA to take on without counsel.
DaneC (California)
Posts: 210
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SarahO on 09/12/2007 6:13 PM
1)Both of these properties are held in the name of the developers company name.

2) Unfortunately the HOA was never recorded as part of anyones deed and the few deed restrictions that are recorded have been violated many times to the point of being worthless.

3) In the past the HOA was regarded as a social organization with dues of $40.per year in a 210 single family home development.there are aprox. 80 homes that currently pay dues and the monies go toward two potlucks per year,one of which is the mandatory HOA meeting and to the maintenance of the park/beach lighting, painting weeding,mowing etc.area which is used mainly by residents off the lake as access and somewhere for kids to play.

4) Also the best offer that we have received from the developer is an interest free 30year loan to pay for the dam repairs,which he expects the HOA to convince everyone to join and take on the $100. per household payment that would be necessary from every homeowner.How big is this guy dreaming???

4) The HOA feels that some govt agency such as ODNR should be forcing this guy to do the repairs and belated maintenance such as dredging before we take on the property. I would think from what I have read that is the norm but without the funds or the time to sue what recourse as HO do we have?? We are looking ahead and without the assurance that we can enforce everyone to contribute to the HOA

5) since prior to this property turn over the dues was never mandatory how can we maintain and set up a reserve to take care of future expenses down the road? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

You mention your area being 50 years old - back then, there may not have been HOA requirements.
You say the dues were never mandatory 5, but an annual HOA meeting is mandatory 3. Strange. Are you an Incorporated or Unincorporated Association?

I wonder what would happen if whatever you are was disbanded, to whom would this developer try to offload the dam repairs?

However, with aquisition of this asset, and the ability to improve it, you may be enhancing property values in the area, so it would seem fair, that since they kept it for 50 years, your option should also be a 50 year interest free loan.

Is it of any value or use to anyone besides the folks in your area? If not, perhaps you can thank him for the offer, but advise that you are cash strapped, and perhaps it would be more financially advantageous for him to sell on the open market.

Seems like this may more be a matter that would be settled at a County, State or Federal level.
SarahO (Ohio)
Posts: 26
Posted:
Thank you for your comments we are an Incorporated association that is why an annual meeting is necessary. We have exhausted all govt agencies as far as trying to get the developer to comply with the ODNR standards we get the old under budgeted overworked excuse as to why things have not been enforced.
One of our fears is that the minute the HOA would take on ownership of the lake we would be gone after...Murphy's Law and all.
The only thing this developer has done for the lake and beach in the past 50 years has been to pay property tax which at this point is around $300. per year for both properties. He has threatened to just let this property go which has been the case the past 2 years and why we started to negotiate for repairs.
We have had a severe drought this summer and a mild one last year both resulting is a major stink and fish kill definately not an enjoyable situation to live with. The area being situated in Ohio is already financially depressed and a dry stinking lake is not helping any. The only access for anyone other than homeowners to access the lake would be at the beach area and there is just not the space to accomadate parked cars etc... So selling to an outside buyer or even turning the property over to the township for public use is not an option. We really have tried to figure out a way for all of this to work and have come to pretty much the same conclusions, either a govt agency needs to enforce its codes on the developer or we will be living on sh--ts creek for a long time to come.
Where I thought this bulletin board may help out on is if we could reach an agreement on the dam/lake maintenance and repairs, how can we set up something to cover the continued and future maintenance of these properties? Has any one had any experience along these lines where the dues went from voluntary to mandatory?? Thanks
NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Sarah, look at the recent posts. There is one about a voluntary to mandatory association.

If you do purchase will need to set up a reserve for the future expenses of the lake. This is basically a savings account that is held and funded on a yearly basis for a common element.

Did you try the National Wildlife Refuge or the US Fish and Wildlife Service. They could possibly help with either enforcement or point you in the right direction.
SarahO (Ohio)
Posts: 26
Posted:
Thank you Nancy I did read the voluntary to mandatory thread and it looks like it will be impossible to get everyone to agree. We did approach the govt agencies you mentioned but it seem that ODNR is the only agency who would be able to take legal action as a joint effort with the Attny General and that is where we get the underfunded overworked runaround since the Atty, Gen. is overwhelmed with the sub prime loan situation an ODNR hasn't made their annual inspection in over 8 years. All other agencies are hands off because this involves private property.
I was really hoping someone could come up with some legal leverage that we could point out that the developer is responsible to bring this property up to snuff before he is allowed to sell it off to the HOA. Has anyone any insight on the subject?
SarahO (Ohio)
Posts: 26
Posted:
We have tried to track down the performance bonds that we know existed and keep getting told that they cannot be located.
NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Sarah, write to the proper authorities, call them, tell someone you are going to turn it into a nudist only swim area, keep haunting them. By-pass the local and go state. Not everyone is working on the state of the economic issues in the country. Governing bodies do not have only one project to work on. If they say they do, tell them your pond is next.
Good luck!!

Have you checked the county records for the performance bonds? They should be on file with the building permits.
HaroldS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 314
Posted:
Sarah - Is it possible for him to remove the dam and eliminate the lake? Sounds pretty expensive to restore it. I don't know how he can force you to take it. If he does abandon it, I should think it would then become county or township responsibility, or whoever buys it at tax sale. Shouldn't your county or state environmental agency be involved with the dead fish, etc.? How could they force adjoining property to assume responsibility? And if there are no mandatory requirements on your deeds to maintain this lake, how are you going to collect the necessary $ to do this? Some might, and certainly some will not. And also to collect the reserves needed for down the road? And insurance for legal liabilities. Why would you want to take on such a headache? You can't force someone to join an HOA. It requires 100% approval.
DaneC (California)
Posts: 210
Posted:
"Financially depressed" - I hear you, I went to a wedding in your Martins Ferry 2 years ago - the groom (from Canada) is yet to find a job!
What about your reps in Congress and the Senate, the EPA. Have you tried any national media?
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
SarahO you might try contacting the Army Corp of Engineers they may have some say on the matter since it involves damming of a river. (One word of caution is once you get them involved you might not like the outcome; Federal Agency with its own agenda and all.)

Imo I would not take possession of the property in this condition as you and your fellow homeowners' may become responsible for hundreds of thousands of dollars in repairs. I would get the homeowners that are involved to pony up $10.00 each and consult an attorney and get an expert opinion of the liability you all face.

You could sue him to get him to bring it up to snuff or if he stops paying the taxes on the property you and your neighbors could raise your dues by $4.00 a year and pay them for him. Just walk into the County Clerk's office with $300.00 in cash and pay them which would keep him on the hook - or his heirs as if he's had it for 50 years he must be getting up there!

But whatever you decide to do - raise some money and talk to an attorney

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
SarahO (Ohio)
Posts: 26
Posted:
It is possible to remove the dam but then there goes our lake front property. Unfortunately for us as homeowners the ODNR would prefer that the lake be brought back to a stream but no one has considered the water treatment plant on the other side and that the lake serves as a water retention basin during the rain/snow melting seasons we are sure it would be a bigger mess to remove the dam and doing so would also require an equal expense to the repair when all is said and done. It is a real Catch -22 situation. I however like the suggestion of turning it into a nudist beach,especially when the average age of our residents ar 60+++ LOL It would be a true site to behold!!!
SarahO (Ohio)
Posts: 26
Posted:
We did phone our congresswoman whose staffer was all hepped up to help us out and rattled off a 1/2 dozen names of people and agencies they would contact on our behalf and then when we sent a letter detailing the situation the only response we received was they would send a letter to the governor on our behalf.
GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posted:
Sarah:

The HOA should not allow him to deed it over in the disrepair. Tell him to fix it to a maintainable level then and only then will the HOA take it over. If he doesn't, tell him to keep it. Let him pay the taxes and the repairs.
DaneC (California)
Posts: 210
Posted:
With 210 homes, and an average age of 60+, you have the forces necessary for about 40 folks a day keep calling as many "political" entities/persons as possible. You CAN WEAR THEM DOWN with the constant phoning. (I once had an overseas bank refuse to respond to me, so I kept faxing them my business request, using 2 pages over and over, until they had to call and beg me to stop faxing - my request was completed 2 days later.)
SarahO (Ohio)
Posts: 26
Posted:
We have tried that approach and the response that we get is that he just won't bother to make the repairs. Believe me this guy is famous for doing just that!!! I do like the next posters idea about calling continually, I think it really rests on the govt to impose the laws that are in place and as tax payers and homeowners we are getting the shaft from all sides.

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