💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

ChrisP5 (Missouri)
Posts: 165
Posted:
I’m beginning to feel like I’m going a bit crazy dealing with our PM. Tell me if I’m way off base here.

Background - We had some significant property damage to a condo building resulting in damage estimates over 500,000. We finally have the bids to rebuild and are working through final approval with the insurance now.

The proposal from the construction company is a half page and that’s it. There is no contract to be signed.

I can’t imagine doing any major type of work without a contract in place, particularly a six figure construction project. We know this company and trust them but I feel we need to be protected. I started asking about things like work comp, liability, liability for subs, warranties, payment terms, termination for non-performance, etc and most of the answers are “oh we would require that” “oh they are great at that”.

I work for a very large entity that requires contract for nearly everything we do so that may be skewing my view. Am I completely out of line for thinking a fairly detailed construction contract needs to be in place here? I don’t want to hold up rebuilding but also don’t want to expose the association to unreasonable risk.
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posted:
You are not crazy your $500,000 job will turn into a $1,000.000 job without a detailed contract.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Need more details. What is the involvement of the PM with this company? Who is going to be signing the contract? The PM or the HOA?

Why would the company doing the work not put a contract together after the proposal? They need protected too. A proposal is different than a contract. So maybe it hasn't been drafted yet?

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Sounds like you're on the Board, right, Chris? Your PM got more than one bid for your board to consider, right?

With proposals & contracts of that size, our board interviews the potential vendors.
PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
You said you're working with the insurance company. The work to be done should be included in the insurance adjuster's report. When we had a smaller insurance repair job, the vendor's report was very short and referred to the adjuster's report. I do recall signing off on it. It wasn't as large as this, but our insurance company held the funds until the owner and HOA signed off that the work was completed.

Many years ago, I was on the Board during the very end, we had a building burn with 4 condos. Insurance made draw payments against the work done once they were approved by the Board. It did take almost a year for the work to be completed.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
No, you're not off base. In fact, I've seen blogs from HOA attorneys who suggest projects over a significant amount of money should be reviewed by an attorney before they're signed, so the fine print won't trip up the association somewhere. How much is significant will depend on the association and its finances.

Ultimately, the BOARD, not the property manager is responsible for responsible use of the association resources, so if you're on the board, insist that your attorney have a look at the contract (not a proposal). Have the contractor provide answers to your questions and ask about anything you don't understand. If there's something that bothers you and you can't negotiate that part of the contract, you may need to rethink hiring that contractor. And do your due diligence - you can ask for written proof of insurance and liability coverage and double-check the status with the carrier, or have the property manager do it.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Though a CA HOA attorneys' website, visit Davis-stirling.com and scroll to Contracts and then click on Contracts Checklist. It's very useful.
PestY
Posts: 128
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ChrisP5 on 08/08/2019 7:34 PM
I’m beginning to feel like I’m going a bit crazy dealing with our PM. Tell me if I’m way off base here.

Background - We had some significant property damage to a condo building resulting in damage estimates over 500,000. We finally have the bids to rebuild and are working through final approval with the insurance now.

The proposal from the construction company is a half page and that’s it. There is no contract to be signed.

I can’t imagine doing any major type of work without a contract in place, particularly a six figure construction project. We know this company and trust them but I feel we need to be protected. I started asking about things like work comp, liability, liability for subs, warranties, payment terms, termination for non-performance, etc and most of the answers are “oh we would require that” “oh they are great at that”.

I work for a very large entity that requires contract for nearly everything we do so that may be skewing my view. Am I completely out of line for thinking a fairly detailed construction contract needs to be in place here? I don’t want to hold up rebuilding but also don’t want to expose the association to unreasonable risk.

There is no contract requiring signature.

Y'all have received a PROPOSAL.

Now you take other proposals into consideration and develop a SPECIFICATION to obtain bids so that all prospective bidders are bidding on THE SAME SCOPE OF WORK and the SAME MATERIALS to be used.

THEN y'all select the lowest ACCEPTABLE bidder (not necessarily the lowest bid).

or

perhaps the insurance company is 'handling' the repair with THEIR lowest cost vendor
ChrisP5 (Missouri)
Posts: 165
Posted:
Thanks for confirming what I was feeling. I’ll try to answer a few questions...

1) This is the only company that we have considered for the work.. they are the original builder and the nature of this reconstruction will effectively have them tearing down half a building and rebuilding while residents continue to occupy the other half. Given their knowledge of the existing structure they are probably the best suited to the job.

2) Our insurance is full replacement cost so as long as the insurance company signs agrees it should be covered.

3) The PM has primarily been the interface with our insurance as well as the multiple insurance providers for resident units. The PM has also interfaced pretty closely with the contractor in the initial steps of recovery.

4) As crazy as it sounds this company actually claims they don’t have a standard contract form they use. They primarily build new neighborhoods and commercial buildings that are turned over to the owner after the structure is completed.

5) I am the president of our board and have convinced even the non business savvy members that this isn’t a handshake agreement kind of deal.

6) thanks for pointing out the DS Checklist. That will come in handy for discussions.
PestY
Posts: 128
Posted:
The 'contract' need merely state:

Insurance company will pay in full.

Repairs will meet original construction specification OR present code, whichever is more stringent.

(anything else risks 'alienation' of an apparently good builder - think round object busting)

or

let your insurer handle the issue



MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I wouldn't ASSUME they are the best for the job based on "familiarity". Built in mistakes are built in mistakes to keep covering up. You don't know what they built isn't subject to scrutiny. I would get atleast 2 other bids to see where they go. I've worked in construction field before. No builder is perfect and do things alike. Even the best builders build in bad ideas...

Former HOA President
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/10/2019 7:51 AM
I wouldn't ASSUME they are the best for the job based on "familiarity".

If a major priority it to get people back in their homes as quickly as possible, then going with the original builder could make a lot of sense. Also, less likely to to have disputes over undisclosed problems that often occur when you bring someone new in.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The fact being "Undisclosed issues". Do you really want the same group who didn't tell you about they built something wrong keep working? I've learned the hard way about ASSUMPTIONS when it comes to construction... Just saying don't have assumptions but reasons...

Former HOA President
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/10/2019 10:27 AM
The fact being "Undisclosed issues". Do you really want the same group who didn't tell you about they built something wrong keep working? I've learned the hard way about ASSUMPTIONS when it comes to construction... Just saying don't have assumptions but reasons...

You missed the point I was making.

Let's call it "unobservable" instead of "undisclosed".

A new contractor will often have a clause in their contract to cover them against things that come up that weren't readily visible. The original contractor wouldn't be successful with such an argument.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
PestY
Posts: 128
Posted:
nps,

you nailed it with one hit

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here