Petition signatures shared Glendale AZ

CharlotteS2 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Our community in Glendale AZ signed a petition for a special meeting to be called regarding the removal of a HOA board member. Those signatures were sent to our property management company certified mail and we are just waiting to hear back from both the management company regarding the findings from the attorney if 37 out of the 48 signatures are valid, however the community just found out that the board member whom the petition is regarding is now calling the people who's signatures are on that petition before they have even been verified as valid voters is calling these homeowners crying to them. This means that the property management company shared these signatures with that board member which have not been verified yet as valid voters. Is this allowed? Does the management company have a right to share these signatures with that board member that the petition is regarding?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Why was your Management company involved in the first place? It would have been a board decision. So the MC would have notified the board.

I would read your documents and see how these things work for a recall... My experience it's been between HOA members and boards not MC.

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'm pretty sure that Owners would send such a petition to the PM and not to the board. But I also think the PM could share the signatures with the director in solved. One thing I'm wondering is how is it that this director has members' phone numbers??

BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821

Posted:

Why wouldn’t a recall petition be part of the books and records of the association, available to any owner?

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568

Posted:

From our By-Laws. Requests are made to the Board.

*****Special Members’ Meetings shall be held whenever called by the President or Vice-President or by a majority of the Board of Directors and must be called by such officers upon receipt of written request form members of the Association owning a majority of The Condominium Units.******

Most Board's have access to member's phone numbers. Personally I wouldn't use the list for that purpose. Phone numbers can be searched on the internet.

There is really nothing to stop the Board Member to reach out to all member's in any way that wouldn't violate privacy laws.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

In CA, no owners have other owners' phone numbers and we may not get them by requesting them from management. Our PM, of course has such numbers, but the board does not.

I think in HOAs with PMs, the petition would go to the PM as an "agent"of the board.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CharlotteS2 on 08/03/2019 10:37 PM
Our community in Glendale AZ signed a petition for a special meeting to be called regarding the removal of a HOA board member. Those signatures were sent to our property management company certified mail and we are just waiting to hear back from both the management company regarding the findings from the attorney if 37 out of the 48 signatures are valid, however the community just found out that the board member whom the petition is regarding is now calling the people who's signatures are on that petition before they have even been verified as valid voters is calling these homeowners crying to them. This means that the property management company shared these signatures with that board member which have not been verified yet as valid voters. Is this allowed? Does the management company have a right to share these signatures with that board member that the petition is regarding?

If not allowed then what remedy/punishment do you want?

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 08/04/2019 8:30 AM
In CA, no owners have other owners' phone numbers and we may not get them by requesting them from management. Our PM, of course has such numbers, but the board does not.

I think in HOAs with PMs, the petition would go to the PM as an "agent"of the board.

Sorry, that is not true. Owners living in a HOA that has a HOA sponsored website have a feature where owners opt-in to having their phone numbers and email available. There is absolutely nothing illegal about that.

CharlotteS2 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

I guess my question must not have been clear enough. The homeowners have signed a petition for the removal of a board member and those signatures were sent to the property management company to be validated however in the mean while the PM shared those names with that board who is listed on the petition is this legal? because that board member is calling these homeowners crying to them.. The question is was the PM allowed to share those signatures?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Of course, residents CAN opt in in writing, etc., Richard.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CharlotteS2 on 08/04/2019 10:29 AM
I guess my question must not have been clear enough. The homeowners have signed a petition for the removal of a board member and those signatures were sent to the property management company to be validated however in the mean while the PM shared those names with that board who is listed on the petition is this legal? because that board member is calling these homeowners crying to them.. The question is was the PM allowed to share those signatures?

Any homeowner can also see the signatures. You could also share who voted, but not how they voted.

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CharlotteS2 on 08/04/2019 10:29 AM
I guess my question must not have been clear enough. The homeowners have signed a petition for the removal of a board member and those signatures were sent to the property management company to be validated however in the mean while the PM shared those names with that board who is listed on the petition is this legal? because that board member is calling these homeowners crying to them.. The question is was the PM allowed to share those signatures?

The petition is usually addressed to the Board, unless your governing documents state otherwise, so why wouldn't the Board see it?

Is the petition for the Board to call a Special Meeting or do your governing documents allow for just a petitioned request by membership to remove a Board Member?

Remember, the PM works for the, and under direction of the Board.

Posters almost always phrase if something is illegal. Many things may be illegal but the avenues for correction are civil and not criminal. If it is illegal, the owners would have to file a lawsuit against the HOA.

What do your governing documents say about the removal of a Board member?

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PatJ1 on 08/04/2019 10:47 AM

Posted By CharlotteS2 on 08/04/2019 10:29 AM
I guess my question must not have been clear enough. The homeowners have signed a petition for the removal of a board member and those signatures were sent to the property management company to be validated however in the mean while the PM shared those names with that board who is listed on the petition is this legal? because that board member is calling these homeowners crying to them.. The question is was the PM allowed to share those signatures?

The petition is usually addressed to the Board, unless your governing documents state otherwise, so why wouldn't the Board see it?

Is the petition for the Board to call a Special Meeting or do your governing documents allow for just a petitioned request by membership to remove a Board Member?

Remember, the PM works for the, and under direction of the Board.

Posters almost always phrase if something is illegal. Many things may be illegal but the avenues for correction are civil and not criminal. If it is illegal, the owners would have to file a lawsuit against the HOA.

What do your governing documents say about the removal of a Board member?

Actually, the PM work for the Association, UNDER the direction of the Board.

CharlotteS2 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

The petition was for the calling of a special meeting with the Board. We have to have 37 valid homeowner signatures. AZ statute and our Governing documents state in order for the Homeowners to have a special meeting called we need those 37 signatures. So we got them and sent them to our PM so they could be validated however the special meeting is for the removal of a board member and that board member now has these signatures which were shared with that board member by PM

My question is it legal that the PM shared those signatures with that board member that the homeowners are trying to remove?

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CharlotteS2 on 08/04/2019 11:47 AM
The petition was for the calling of a special meeting with the Board. We have to have 37 valid homeowner signatures. AZ statute and our Governing documents state in order for the Homeowners to have a special meeting called we need those 37 signatures. So we got them and sent them to our PM so they could be validated however the special meeting is for the removal of a board member and that board member now has these signatures which were shared with that board member by PM

My question is it legal that the PM shared those signatures with that board member that the homeowners are trying to remove?

Until they are removed, that Board member is still a member of the Board.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CharlotteS2 on 08/03/2019 10:37 PM
Our community in Glendale AZ signed a petition for a special meeting to be called regarding the removal of a HOA board member. Those signatures were sent to our property management company certified mail and we are just waiting to hear back from both the management company regarding the findings from the attorney if 37 out of the 48 signatures are valid, however the community just found out that the board member whom the petition is regarding is now calling the people who's signatures are on that petition before they have even been verified as valid voters is calling these homeowners crying to them. This means that the property management company shared these signatures with that board member which have not been verified yet as valid voters. Is this allowed? Does the management company have a right to share these signatures with that board member that the petition is regarding?

The questions I see here are:

1. What should the other BOD members have done when they learned that the targeted member was trying to get people to remove their names from the list?

2. If a community member did ask for her name to be removed, should it be removed or left on the list?

Not sure what the answers are. But here's a start.

On the one hand, I don't think the targeted BOD member should be allowed to interfere with a process that has been set in motion via legitimate procedures. On the other hand, I can understand where the targeted BOD member might not care about shoulds and coulds. If he wants to keep his position, he won't care about much else.

Net, net ... Someone other than the targeted member needs to be in charge.

The lawyers need to be reporting to someone other than the targeted member. Sure they report to the BOD, but usually there's a primary point of contact. If the targeted BOD member is that typical point of contact, the lawyers should be challenged on the inappropriateness of not asking the BOD for another contact person.

If I understand your post correctly, the only open issue is whether enough valid signatures were collected on the petition. Once the count is taken, there's the next stage of balloting and voting. IMO, the targeted BOD member jumped the gun and started campaigning to undermine the petition process. If your attorneys have a different description, I for one would like to hear it.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Charlotte wants to know if giving the person being recalled the names on the request for a Special Meeting to recall him/her is allowed?

Even if the person giving out the names was wrong, what happen:

1. Petition cancelled as the name giver was wrong to do so. Start from scratch.
2. Petition cancelled as person being recalled is talking to petition signers. Start from scratch.
3. Petition cancelled as some signers revoke their signature. Start from scratch.
4. Petition cancelled as some signatures found not valid. Start from scratch.
5. Go forward but sent the name giver to the guillotine.

Charlotte: Which do you prefer?

CharlotteS2 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

I received to posts from two of the homeowners that signed the petition informing me that board member listed on that petition has made contact with them. Here is one of communications that the board member sent to a homeowner " I received notification from Trestle that you signed a petition to have me personally removed from the board. I am curious to know why this is directed specifically at me?"

And she has always reached out to another homeowner crying to them about her name being on the petition for the special meeting for possible removal.

I didnt think that the PM would have shared with this with the said board member on that petition and I cant find anything for the state of AZ that says this is illegal but this is not right

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Guillotine. I say to the guillotine. Knitting as I chant....

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I was thinking more like "For the greater good"... JohhC… LOL!

It's not like you can hide this information from the board. They do play a crucial role in the removal. Again, I would READ your documents on the CORRECT process of removing a board member. I am sure it's not behind one's back and a whole big "screw you" surprise at the end.... Just sayin...

Former HOA President

CharlotteS2 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

the process of removing the current board member has been followed based on our governing documents as well as the AZ statues the problem/concern is that our PM shared those names with the board member and she is now contacting them! she is interfering with the petition process and now harassing these homeowners before any special meeting can be called. I am just trying to find out if there are any laws that have been broken?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

And if there were laws broken then what? If she is harassing people then that is a LAW broken. The people who feel "harassed" best call the POLICE to make a report. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of crap that is what it is.

Former HOA President

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CharlotteS2 on 08/04/2019 2:30 PM
the process of removing the current board member has been followed based on our governing documents as well as the AZ statues the problem/concern is that our PM shared those names with the board member and she is now contacting them! she is interfering with the petition process and now harassing these homeowners before any special meeting can be called. I am just trying to find out if there are any laws that have been broken?

No laws were broken!

CharlotteS2 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

thank you all for the insightful information. appreciated. but i am not for sure what the last comment of " Otherwise, it's just a bunch of crap that is what it is." is supposed to mean.

CharlotteS2 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

thank you all for the insightful information. appreciated. but i am not for sure what the last comment of " Otherwise, it's just a bunch of crap that is what it is." is supposed to mean.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

It means you all opened up a box full of worms and now don't know how to put them back in the can. Can't understand why the worms are asking why I got to go back into the can?

Former HOA President

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CharlotteS2 on 08/04/2019 3:01 PM
thank you all for the insightful information. appreciated. but i am not for sure what the last comment of " Otherwise, it's just a bunch of crap that is what it is." is supposed to mean.

That's Melissa giving "legal advice".

CharlotteS2 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

worms

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Oh sorry did I call out the situation as it is? You and others created a petition to get rid of a board member. Sent it to the MC. The MC contacted the HOA board about the situation (Something you and others did not). That board member got upset and called people to find out what the problem was. You are calling that "harassment" and "illegal". I call it someone who people behind their back tried to have removed from the board and got mad when it didn't happen that way.

Call it what you will, but if you did not like the board member then should have went to a board meeting directly and announced intention to follow the rules to have them removed. Is it just me here who thinks a heads up to the board member?

Former HOA President

CharlotteS2 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

The signatures have not even been validated yet. We were following the bylaws and AZ statue regarding sending the petition to the MC and this is what we did but we have not heard back yet. But in the meanwhile the board member has been given these names and she has been contacting them this weekend to find out why they signed

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CharlotteS2 on 08/04/2019 1:03 PM
I received to posts from two of the homeowners that signed the petition informing me that board member listed on that petition has made contact with them. Here is one of communications that the board member sent to a homeowner " I received notification from Trestle that you signed a petition to have me personally removed from the board. I am curious to know why this is directed specifically at me?"

But that's not what the petition was for at all, was it? You said the petition was to call a special meeting of the members. Presumably, at that meeting there would be a recall vote, no? If so, then THAT vote could potentially be conducted in anonymous fashion, but the petition for a special meeting is a horse of a different color. And if the board member targeted for recall is contacting owners in order to persuade them to not vote in favor of his recall, then let those who have changed their minds just vote "no recall" when the recall vote is taken at the special meeting.

FWIW I see no problem with the PM sharing the list of petition signatories with the board. It's the board's call whether or not to certify whether or not the number of petition signatures is enough to compel the special meeting.

CharlotteS2 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Petition summary and background: Petition for the calling of a special meeting of the Members of the Association to discuss the removal of Board Member name was inserted here from the Board of Directors

Action petitioned for: The undersigned members hereby petition the Board of Directors to set a special membership meeting for the purpose of removal of name inserted here, a member of board of directors. The board shall call and provide written notice of a special meeting. The meeting shall be called, noticed and held within 30 days after receipt of the petition. ARS 33-1813

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

And the board wasn't going to be aware of this until the MC verified the signatures? Wasn't it the board's job to give the MC the signatures to verify? It is still the HOA membership/board who is to decide to have the special meeting and to recall the board member. What thing did this board member do to demand such a recall?

Former HOA President

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CharlotteS2 on 08/04/2019 10:54 PM
The meeting shall be called, noticed and held within 30 days after receipt of the petition. ARS 33-1813

How many days left before meeting must be held?
How many days before members must be notified of meeting date?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

CharlotteS2 (Arizona)
Posts: 12

Posted:

We have 39 eligible voters on the petition. Because of this, a special meeting shall be called within 30 days from the receipt of the petition. That means a meeting must happen by 8/30/19.

By A.R.S. and Bylaws

Special meeting is called by the Board President

Notice is no less than 15 days

Quorum is 20% (30 eligible voters)

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CharlotteS2 on 08/05/2019 10:34 AM
We have 39 eligible voters on the petition. Because of this, a special meeting shall be called within 30 days from the receipt of the petition. That means a meeting must happen by 8/30/19.

By A.R.S. and Bylaws

Special meeting is called by the Board President

Notice is no less than 15 days

Quorum is 20% (30 eligible voters)

What opportunity will you have to notify the owners about the grievances that triggered the petition?
Will you have access to the same contact information that the targeted BOD member had?
Will the meeting be to vote only, or will there be a discussion period before the actual vote?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.