CaseyD1 (Missouri)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
Can the Bylaws, Declarations and CCR's that were previously each their own doc be combined into 1 document if 2/3 of association agree? Or do are they supposed to be separate docs?
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Combining Bylaws, CCR docs into 1 doc
Started by CaseyD1 • 9 replies • 659 views
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KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The bylaws are very different from the CC&Rs/declaration (which are the same document). They must be separate documents. Read each and you will see what needs to happen to amend or change them. Read each and you'll see they deal with different topics.
How many pages are in each these two?
It's usually easier to amend bylaws. The bylaws, often near the end will tell you how to amend them. It might just be a simple majority of all lot homes or sometime even the board can amend them
CC&Rs often require 2/3 or even 75% of all lots/homes approval to amend them.
How many pages are in each these two?
It's usually easier to amend bylaws. The bylaws, often near the end will tell you how to amend them. It might just be a simple majority of all lot homes or sometime even the board can amend them
CC&Rs often require 2/3 or even 75% of all lots/homes approval to amend them.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Bylaws are INTERNAL HOA documents. They are NOT public. CC&R's and Articles of Incorporation are PUBLIC and required to be filed. CC&R's with the state and AOI at State level. CC&R' are kind of written like an "outline" of the HOA. The by-laws tend to fill in the gaps of the outline. You can file the by-laws with the CC&R's but not required.
Former HOA President
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/17/2019 4:39 PM
Bylaws are INTERNAL HOA documents. They are NOT public. CC&R's and Articles of Incorporation are PUBLIC and required to be filed. CC&R's with the state and AOI at State level. CC&R' are kind of written like an "outline" of the HOA. The by-laws tend to fill in the gaps of the outline. You can file the by-laws with the CC&R's but not required.
Bylaws are INTERNAL HOA documents. They are NOT public. CC&R's and Articles of Incorporation are PUBLIC and required to be filed. CC&R's with the state and AOI at State level. CC&R' are kind of written like an "outline" of the HOA. The by-laws tend to fill in the gaps of the outline. You can file the by-laws with the CC&R's but not required.
That is THE worst description of governing docs I have ever heard!
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Whatever I post is always the worst thing you ever heard... yada yada yada…
You don't combine documents. How about that?
You don't combine documents. How about that?
Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I quibble with Richard a lot, but I must agree that to say that bylaws "fill in the gaps" of the CC&Rs is totally incorrect. The two deal with entirely different subjects
PestY
Posts: 128
Posts: 128
Posted:
CCRs = Covenants/Conditions/Restrictions deal with PROPERTY
Bylaws = Deal with the corporate operation of the HOA
TOTALLY SEPARATE (except if HOA is a co-operative)
Bylaws = Deal with the corporate operation of the HOA
TOTALLY SEPARATE (except if HOA is a co-operative)
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
They ARE separate documents, but for some reason, I sense your question may have to do more with printing copies. If you wanted to provide one massive document to everyone, put a blank page between each so people know what they're looking at (those pages could say "this page deliberately left blank"). Better yet, load all this stuff on your community website if you have one (separate files for each) and then people can download whatever they like and print it as well.
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Nice distinction, PestY
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
My HOA's documents are weird. The Articles of Incorporation are filed with the state and are fine for the most part, having been filed when the corporation was established about 6 months before the CC&Rs and the Bylaws were recorded with the county.
The CC&Rs mention the Bylaws, "which are hereby incorporated by reference." So that elevates everything in the Bylaws to the same level as the CC&Rs. Incorporation By Reference essentially makes every word in the Bylaws also a part of the CC&Rs.
Then - and here's the good part - the Bylaws refer to the CC&Rs, "which are hereby incorporated by reference." That elevates (de-elevates?) everything in the CC&Rs to the same level as the Bylaws.
Yet another reason to re-write our documents. I wouldn't want to even attempt to untangle that mess.
And to answer the original poster's question, no, leave them separate. For distribution purposes you can combine them back-to-back in a single file, say a PDF file, and distribute that single file, but the documents themselves are separate things.
The CC&Rs mention the Bylaws, "which are hereby incorporated by reference." So that elevates everything in the Bylaws to the same level as the CC&Rs. Incorporation By Reference essentially makes every word in the Bylaws also a part of the CC&Rs.
Then - and here's the good part - the Bylaws refer to the CC&Rs, "which are hereby incorporated by reference." That elevates (de-elevates?) everything in the CC&Rs to the same level as the Bylaws.
Yet another reason to re-write our documents. I wouldn't want to even attempt to untangle that mess.
And to answer the original poster's question, no, leave them separate. For distribution purposes you can combine them back-to-back in a single file, say a PDF file, and distribute that single file, but the documents themselves are separate things.
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