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BradT4 (Illinois)
Posts: 32
Posted:
We have 15 buildings in our association. All have 10 X 10 foot concrete patios.
Declarations say that no owner may build into or improve any common areas. Since the common areas are everything except our front porch and steps and patio, would it be allowed to extend a patio into the common area without getting a vote from the entire membership?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Keep reading your documents (look at the CCRs) and see what it says about exterior changes by individual homeowners. I would think certain improvements would have to be approved in advance by the board, so you should have some sort of exterior change request and review policy. The nuts and bolts as to how and when to file a request may not be in the CCRs, but your documents should give the Board the authority to establish rules and policies, as long as they aren't in conflict with the documents. If you have a policy, make sure the homeowners get a copy so everyone knows where they stand.

In this case, I'd want to know why the owner wants to extend it, as those dimensions may impact the neighbors., and how much more he/she wants to extend it. The board could then vote to approve or deny the request and explain why. The homeowner could then file an appeal and your exterior change policy should address how that's to be done.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
PestY
Posts: 128
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BradT4 on 07/12/2019 4:53 AM
We have 15 buildings in our association. All have 10 X 10 foot concrete patios.
Declarations say that no owner may build into or improve any common areas. Since the common areas are everything except our front porch and steps and patio, would it be allowed to extend a patio into the common area without getting a vote from the entire membership?

There is no question to be answered.

The Declaration is crystal clear.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

repeat 9 more times

A THOUSAND TIMES NO
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
The common area is marked on plats. So is exclusive use common area or "limited common area." Competent HOA attorneys emphatically warn Boards to never, ever let members encroach into common area. Liability concerns arise. Who maintains what becomes unclear. If you insist on pursuing this path, then like Shelia said, review your HOA's governing documents for when common area may be converted to limited common area.
MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Hey maybe Augustin can draft a letter for you.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Your declaration may say something about variances, where an Owner can make some changes that might be against some aspect of the declaration. But I don't think a variance could be granted to give an Owner a chunk of the common area.

So...your declaration might say something about what needs to occur for any aspect of the common area to be ceded to an owner as their exclusive or limited use common area. It really might take a vote of the owners since everyone "owns" this piece of common area.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Your declaration may say something about variances, where an Owner can make some changes that might be against some aspect of the declaration. But I don't think a variance could be granted to give an Owner a chunk of the common area.

So...your declaration might say something about what needs to occur for any aspect of the common area to be ceded to an owner as their exclusive or limited use common area. It really might take a vote of the owners since everyone "owns" this piece of common area.
BradT4 (Illinois)
Posts: 32
Posted:
Thanks again SheliaH for your response.
The owner wants to make it bigger mostly to add value to his home.
Protecting what current owners now have is my concern. Particularly the great landscaping that gives us a little more privacy.
Being a 1st time board member for almost 2 months this has been the biggest issue so far but there are many others.
First, I am against allowing it. I requested that the board have the attorney rule on the Declarations.
In typical attorney fashion, she recited most of the paragraphs pertaining to Architectural improvements, but did not comment on the one that says "No alterations, additions or improvements (collectively Alterations) shall be made to the Community Area by any Owner."
With in the definitions Community Area is said to be "Those portions other than the interior of each home and other than patios, decks and steps which serve each home".
What the person wanting the extension is trying to say is that his patio after being built will no longer be community area so it is OK to build it.
Being such a big change to the basic make up of the entire grounds, I believe it should require a vote from all owners.
Regardless of all that, with my background in construction, I went ahead and wrote up an "Owners Guide to Extending Patios" in case it were to be allowed. Which included parameters for over all size and much more.
The board president considered it too overwhelming and was unable to do business because of it and is now blaming me for stopping all effective board operations. WOW!
The extension of the patio has been allowed by email vote (not mine), and I think that is a mistake.
BradT4 (Illinois)
Posts: 32
Posted:
PestY

Exactly what I think!

BradT4 (Illinois)
Posts: 32
Posted:
My feelings exactly. Even though my survey shows my property line going half way into the common area in the grass court yard behind our unit, I think it is all common or community area except for the 10 X 10 foot patio.
I truly feel that it opens up too many issues that most board members have no idea what all is involved.
As a new board member I am trying to make sure that things are done correctly.
9 out of 10 owners I asked said they did not like the idea. The one that would like to enlarge his, also said he could see more reasons why not.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Brad

There are two ways for you to fight the extension. One is to get a written legal opinion that is against it. The 2nd is to pull a Restraining Order stopping it and fight it out in court.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
See if the board will have the attorney to comment particularly on the "community area" section. Our HOA attorney also has neglected certain Articles, etc. I assume it's carelessness.

How do your documents distinguish between common area and community area? Or are they the same? It's possible that not even an Owner's vote can give the common area to an owner.

Does your board not see the poor logic of the owner's argument? "What the person wanting the extension is trying to say is that his patio after being built will no longer be community area so it is OK to build it."

I do think, even with the best of intentions, you overstepped by making guidelines for extending patios, especially since your documents seem o says that may NOT occur. The board should decide and vote on a director doing that kind of work.

Based on this, your other email, and Sheila's usual advice, check out the CAI--Community Association Institute for free publications about being an HOA board member. I remember one that helped me a lot is called something like a "Board Member's Toolkit."

SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posted:
Why don't you send an email to the attorney point out the section you shared with us and ask them why that section does not prohibit the extend of the patio. You can question the attorney's response.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamE2 on 07/14/2019 1:34 PM
Why don't you send an email to the attorney point out the section you shared with us and ask them why that section does not prohibit the extend of the patio. You can question the attorney's response.

Good suggestion.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BradT4 on 07/13/2019 12:55 PM
My feelings exactly. Even though my survey shows my property line going half way into the common area in the grass court yard behind our unit, I think it is all common or community area except for the 10 X 10 foot patio.


What do the plats on file with the county say about (1) your property line and (2) what common area is?

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