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Nuisance Dogs

Started by JennyL5 • 15 replies • 1138 views

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JennyL5 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Our CCRs were recently changed to include allowing the HOA to take a dog away from the owner within three days after they become a nuisance. It was not described what kind of nuisance or who would take the dog away. We live in Central America but our HOA is established in Florida. There is no animal control officer here like there would b in the states. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
First, the CC&Rs have to be clear about what the grounds are for asking a dog to be removed. Second, I am not sure what you mean by 'take away.' My understanding is that the HOA has to give proper notice to the owner to remove the dog. The owner must be given a chance to appeal. If the HOA still finds that the dog has to go, and the owner refuses, then the HOA is supposed to threaten legal action. If the owner still refuses, the HOA can take the owner to court.

HOAs are not supposed to enter units or directly confiscate property. They have to go through the courts.
JennyL5 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Any pets which creates a nuisance or unreasonable disturbance or causes damage to any Common Property may be permanently removed from the property upon three days notice.
This is exactly as it shows in the CCRs.
Yes, they need to define what is an unreasonable disturbance. But remove the dog from the property is outrageous. And I don’t think they are referring to the Common Property in this case.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
On the other hand, the typical CC&Rs do have a clause prohibiting any "nuisance," and I think this is fine and appropriate. City ordinances typically have a prohibition on nuisances as well. I think in particular the concerns are barking and biting.

If a dog has bitten someone on common area property, and a HOA knows about it, the argument is that a HOA's failure to take action can cause the HOA to be liable in the future. The net has a lot of discussion about this.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JennyL5 on 07/05/2019 8:41 AM
But remove the dog from the property is outrageous.

It's not that outrageous. I'll bet there are other owners there that think it's outrageous that the dog is permitted to stay on the premises after having made a nuisance out of itself.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 07/05/2019 1:33 PM
Posted By JennyL5 on 07/05/2019 8:41 AM
But remove the dog from the property is outrageous.

It's not that outrageous. I'll bet there are other owners there that think it's outrageous that the dog is permitted to stay on the premises after having made a nuisance out of itself.

I agree.
JZ2 (Florida)
Posts: 52
Posted:
JennyL5,

The HOA would have to go to court and obtain an order authorizing it to have the dog removed. Otherwise, the HOA would be trespassing on private property and enforcing a remedy without due process.

If the dog is indeed proven to be a nuisance in a court of law, however, the court CAN order it to be removed.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
laws in central america would apply.
JennyL5 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I agree that if a dog bites someone, the dog may be removed. But biting is not a nuisance, it’s a danger. I would say a nuisance is barking or destroying other people’s property.
JennyL5 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I’ve been told that laws of the state, where the HOA was incorporated, would apply. In our case it’s Florida.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
What are we talking about here? Condos or single family homes? Condos are an entirely different animal no pun intended. No HOA can take away an owners possessions including dogs. Condos can with limited powers prohibit someone from bringing animals onto the property, BUT there are certain exceptions. As with any animal complaint, just file a complaint with your local animal control office, let the law do your footwork. HOA's can always fine and call to a hearing for continued nuisance complaints, but let AC do your scutt work.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
2012 case where a condo unit owner in FL was ordered to permanently remove her dog from her unit. This is an interesting case because the condo association had employees that made reports every time a noise complaint was made by another owner. The paper trail of complaints over time was enough to prove the nuisance. The dog was making at least one other unit owner's life a living hekk.

The owner offered a couple of defenses that were thrown out and the final order of the arbitration proceding can be seen near the end on page 12:

"Within thirty (30) days of the date this, order Respondent shall permanently remove her dog, Buddy, from her unit."

I think the same thing would happen in an HOA. Nobody comes and physically takes the animal. The owner would be ordered to remove it from the property.

FL DBPR Arbitration Ruling in Case No. 2012-01-3706
JZ2 (Florida)
Posts: 52
Posted:
//I agree that if a dog bites someone, the dog may be removed. But biting is not a nuisance, it’s a danger. I would say a nuisance is barking or destroying other people’s property.//

Actually, it is BOTH a danger and a nuisance.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
In my county, and I'm sure there are others, there is an official "Dangerous Dog" designation that the Animal Control Division can put on a dog that bites or has bitten people. After that designation has been made, if the dog bites someone else I believe Animal Control can and will come and take possession of the animal. But that's only for a dog already known to injure people, not for merely being a nuiscance.
JoyceR2 (Virginia)
Posts: 156
Posted:
By definition: Nuisance
a person, thing, or circumstance causing inconvenience or annoyance.

What do your rues state about noise, cleaning up behind pet, leashing, damaging property etc. It directly relates to your rules & perhaps some county/state laws. Reasonable relates to "reasonable person" basically.

Normally the owner is the nuisance but what they control becomes the target.

At any rate there should be a process that includes a hearing.

PestY
Posts: 128
Posted:
In the unincorporated section(s) of Horry County, South Carolina (OUTSIDE of a 'subdivision') a trespassing dog may be shot on sight.

This is based upon the agrarian history when trespassing animals were assumed to create crop damage.

Many people still 'subsistence farm' in Horry County.

INSIDE a subdivision said dog must present a 'clear and immediate danger' to permit shooting.

Off leash and barking / growling ?

Off leash and running towards a person ?

The above is why we, the taxpayers, fund 'animal control' and have laws re: mutts.

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