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GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Hi All,

189 single family properties, Florida, voluntary HOA with mandatory CCRs - I'm on the Board and am the Secretary. Note - it is a rental property - I don't live in this neighborhood.

Been considering how to spread the cost to maintain our common areas - entry with landscaping, lighting, irrigation, and our 1+ acre park that is deeded to HOA.

Given the zero probability of changing the CCRs from voluntary to mandatory via the usual path, is there an opportunity to do this through a lawsuit given the common property and a one acre plus park requiring maintenance?

I'm just looking for some way to share the cost more equitably.

Thanks.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
A lawsuit, are you serious?
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Sure. Did I explain it poorly?
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
If it's voluntary, why should they involuntarily be forced to pay? Makes no sense.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
From what I have read there are laws or at least case law that supports requiring people who use privately owned roads to contribute to their maintenance, at least in some places. Forcing others to maintain decorative or aesthetic elements seems a bit more of a stretch. I suppose you could limit use of the park to members so that people who are not contributing would not be able to use it.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posted:
This seems like a good way to become a former HOA board member in that it would probably horribly backfire.
BancsS
Posts: 269
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 06/20/2019 11:06 AM
Hi All,

189 single family properties, Florida, voluntary HOA with mandatory CCRs - I'm on the Board and am the Secretary. Note - it is a rental property - I don't live in this neighborhood.

Been considering how to spread the cost to maintain our common areas - entry with landscaping, lighting, irrigation, and our 1+ acre park that is deeded to HOA.

Given the zero probability of changing the CCRs from voluntary to mandatory via the usual path, is there an opportunity to do this through a lawsuit given the common property and a one acre plus park requiring maintenance?

I'm just looking for some way to share the cost more equitably.

Thanks.

The way I see it, sharing maintenance costs and changing from a voluntary to a mandatory HOA via a lawsuit are two different things. I doubt a lawsuit would bring your desired result but it may require nonHOA members to pay their share for common elements that are used by all. My HOA in Iowa is voluntary but all owners must share in the cost of maintaining some common necessary elements. If you use it, you got a pay for it. You may have a case for nonmembers paying if it is a necessity element. Landscaping, lighting, irrigation, and the park may not fall in that category. I would check with an attorney versed in Florida HOA laws which I know are complex.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Have you had any one competent thoroughly read your governing documents. In opinion, as Banc's mentioned, mentioning the possibility of a lawsuit to find a remedy to your dilemma can make you a former board member quickly.
SheilaJ1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 291
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 06/20/2019 1:43 PM
Have you had any one competent thoroughly read your governing documents. In opinion, as Banc's mentioned, mentioning the possibility of a lawsuit to find a remedy to your dilemma can make you a former board member quickly.

Agree, may need an attorney to read them. In the mean time, if possible please post your CC&R's

HOA or not, if the land has deed restrictions, the restrictions may also state that maintenance is a common expense. If it is, then it would be the normal route of a demand lien letter, followed by a lien.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
George:

-- Any chance you could post (re-post?) the governing documents for this voluntary HOA?

-- Do you know if the Florida statute on HOAs (Title XL, Chapter 720) applies to your HOA?

-- Is your voluntary HOA incorporated, such that corporate statutes apply?

-- Is the deed for the park and other common areas clear that this park and common areas belong to all who reside in the boundaries of this development?

MarkW18
Posts: 1,290
Posted:
Why would you need an attorney to read them. Why can't a Board member be able to read them If they can't, I question whether they should be on a Board. One Board members should be able to do it. Aren't Board presidents the one's that sign contracts. Do they really know what they are signing or relying on someone else to do that for them.

As someone once said, "just saying".
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
On being a former member - I have rental property in this neighborhood. They asked for help. Many are elderly, poor communicators via electronic means, ill, with a huge apathy context.

Mark - I have a pretty good handle on the docs, but the issue is a bit more complicated. Not from the point of view of the HOA being voluntary, but from the need for maintenance where costs are only borne by those volunteering to pay them.

Augustin, I have not posted enclosures previously - they will obviously have the names of the HOA - no harm?

Thanks.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Hi George, lots post here with the name of their HOA. I won't object. On the other hand, let me check the hoatalk[dot]com archives and see if I can turn up your HOA's docs. I just think that is going to take awhile. I am interested in this to learn something. For example: If all those within the bounds of the voluntary HOA own the park, yet they do not have to pay to maintain it, then as you know, it seems like one strange legal situation. What if a kiddo has an accident arguably attributable to inadequate maintenance of the park? Who gets sued? Could this yield a legal argument to make everyone pay for maintenance?
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
George, just spitballing...

Do the deed covenants for the indivisual homes give the owners the RIGHT to join the voluntary HOA? Does the HOA have to accept them as members or can it send the money back and deny them membership?

Where doed the voluntary HOA get its marching orders from? There are Bylaws I assume. Is it a not-for-profit corporation governed by Chapter 617 of the Florida Statutes?

Maybe MRTA has extinhuished some of the homes' deed restrictions. In a mandatory FS 720 HOA the board can file a preservation that ensures the covenants don't expire after 30 years, but in a voluntary association I don't know if that works with so many homeowners not members of the associaion. Theoretically individual homeowners could file for preservation of their own individual deed's covenants and restrictions. I tend to doubt too many of them would have actually done that.

I'm thinking the HOA could get down to 3 members, all directors, have no other members at all, and float the idea of selling off the property owned by the HOA proper, starting with the park. The reason would be because of a lack of funds to properly maintain the property. Sell it to yourselves for $5 and put up a fence and No Trespassing signs. You have to convince the owners somehow to voluntarily contribute.

Even if MRTA extinguished everyone's deed restrictions you couldn't "revitalize" effectively because revitalized CC&Rs or covenants may not be more restrictive than the otiginals. Converting from a voluntary association to a mandatory one that forces people to pay would be "more restrictive" almost by definition.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 " . . . is there an opportunity to do this through a lawsuit . . . I'm just looking for some way to share the cost more equitably.

This ain't legal advice. Florida appears to be a jurisdiction where a so-called "UNJUST ENRICHMENT" remedy is available under LIMITED circumstances.

In my own it has enabled some owners associations for a quarter century to compel contributions after emerging from construction & family law scenarios. ( Here it's succinctly : enriched defendant; correspondingly DE-enriched plaintiff; absence of "juristic reason" for the enrichment - disputing the latter being a great source of legal billings . . . )

Florida appears to deny the remedy where there is any alternative remedy available eg some sort of covenant or contract. See

(Sterling Breeze Owners' Association, Inc. v. New Sterling Resorts, LLC and Sterling Breeze, LLC, 17-1553 (Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 2018) issued Sep 5/18 District Court of Appeal of Florida

https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/4532511/sterling-breeze-owners-association-inc-v-new-sterling-resorts-llc-and/ )

not legal advice
PaulJ6
Posts: 990
Posted:
No, don't do a lawsuit. That will be expensive and time-consuming and will result in people hating you.

Just work to convince people of the merits of the goal that you want.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Geno,

1. nothing directly related to your question
2. HOA was formed under 617, not 720 (720 is specific to mandatory HOA per FS, I think)
3. We preserved our CCRs under MRTA last year (several years in advance of being extinguished) - preservation relates to the CCRs, not the HOA (my read, only)

Tried to attach, but 200K limits are too tight ...

How about links to website locations for the docs ... you can back out of the specific url to see more of the website (all internal docs are protected) ...all of these docs are recorded:
1. CCR - phase III, but all the same - https://www.mirabellehoa.org/file/document/2647505926/icl88rpSByO7oIHB.pdf
2. Bylaws - https://www.mirabellehoa.org/file/document/3550123990/oJuoUQsyRYo4HXq9.pdf
3. Deed for Park from Declarant - https://www.mirabellehoa.org/file/document/448703706/ixNy9GbowOwLRYCZ.pdf

Augustin,

Yes, we are 617 and file each year.

Re being tossed from the Board - since I am doing this as a broad effort favor for nice people (I have property there, but don't live there) I'm not worried about being fired. I am worried about the long term viability of neighborhood in its current voluntary HOA status - may not ever be able to change that, but equitably sharing the costs of the common areas and the park would go a long way to fixing.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Thank you, George. I am reading the docs and Florida statute 617 yada. Pertinent parts that leap out at me:

-- The deed states the park land belongs to the HOA.

-- The Declaration of Covenants under "Definitions" states the organization of the HOA has the purposes of operating the street lights continuously and maintaining, "the park, entrance island, signage and landscaping thereof."

-- The Declaration at Article IV, Section 1 states the HOA has the right to enforce all conditions yada of the Declaration.

-- The Bylaws at Article VII, Section 2(e) oblige the Board to procure and maintain liability insurance for the common property.

-- The Bylaws at Article VII, Section 2(h), oblige the Board to maintain the common property.

-- The Bylaws at Article VII, Section 1(g) allow the Board to bring suit "on behalf of the Members."

-- The statute at 617.0302(15) states the corporation, has the power to "Have and exercise all powers necessary or convenient to effect any or all of the purposes for which the corporation is organized."

-- The Declaration may be amended by a vote of 90% of the owners.

I would want to review the case law. But it seems to me that first, the HOA could bill all owners for the expense of maintaining the park et cetera, as listed in the Declaration. When people do not pay, the HOA could bring suit to force them to pay. The reasoning would be along the lines that the above says nothing about whether the HOA can collect the fees for maintaining the common property. It says everything about the corporation's responsibility to maintain the common properties. Here's the back-and-forth I imagine could take place in court:

Judge to defense attorney: How will the HOA pay for this without all owners chipping in?

Defendants' attorney: It is a voluntary HOA. The costs have to be divvied up among the dues-paying members.

Judge: Where does it say this?

Defendants' attorney: Nowhere. But fairness demands it.

Judge: This does not seem fair to me. Nor does it seem reasonable. All the owners use the park, street lighting and so on. Suppose no one 'volunteered' to pay dues. Then what?

Defendants' attorney: The park and lights fall into disrepair.

Judge: But the Declaration requires the HOA to maintain the parks and light.

Defendants' attorney: This is only a part of a definition in the Declaration.

Judge: Doesn't matter. Courts all the time go to, for example, City charters to identify purposes that are legal obligations. Do you really not want, say, street lights?

Defendants' attorney: Correct. My clients do not want street lights, a park, nothing. My clients do not want to pay for anything. It's a voluntary HOA.

Judge: Yet this Board is legally tasked to maintain these common properties.

Defendants' attorney: This is not my clients' problem.

Judge: Suppose a kid falls in the park and breaks her back. The insurance skyrockets. How does the HOA pay for this?

Defendants' attorney: Not my clients' problem.

Judge: We are going around in circles. Here is my ruling. Your clients have some legal ownership of this common property. The Declaration requires the property to be maintained. It is not reasonable nor fair to only have some of the owners pay. Your clients must pay. Don't like it? Appeal.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
George, has your Board read Sand Lake Hills HOA v. Jeffery and Susan Busch et al. (2017),
https://cases.justia.com/florida/fifth-district-court-of-appeal/2017-5d16-21.pdf?ts=1485533206? It concerns efforts by a voluntary HOA to collect assessments. Your HOA's situation is somewhat different. Still it might be a good idea to contact the attorneys for the HOA in this case and see if they might be open to a consult.
SheilaJ1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 291
Posted:
From Geroge’s post it does appear they simply need a lawyer to send the demand letters, then file a lien. Followed by possible wage garnishment.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Sheila... Wage garnishments are not the easy to do for an HOA. The HOA isn't required to have your social security # or your place of employment. So collecting isn't necessarily that easy if don't have access to that information.

Former HOA President
PaulJ6
Posts: 990
Posted:
I agree with Melissa.

I wouldn't send lawyer demand letters. That will just make people angry.
SheilaJ1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 291
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaulJ6 on 06/23/2019 12:53 PM
I agree with Melissa.

I wouldn't send lawyer demand letters. That will just make people angry.

Is this a typo or something, why would someone send a demand letter to a lawyer.

For delinquent owners the process after the cure period is pretty straight forward. We’ve done wage garnishment before, attorney takes care of all that, standard fixed price as well which includes a trace as they call it.

I think this process could work for a volunteer HOA, an attorney would have to solicited.

It’s surprising that no one was able to see this in the CC&R’s before or maybe they did but thought it was too much to pursue.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Well if they are not paying for the common area maintenance... How is one going to hire a lawyer? Not going to use my personal money for that... A HOA is ONLY funded by it's members.... So who picks up the lawyer fees?

Former HOA President
SheilaJ1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 291
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 06/23/2019 1:24 PM
Well if they are not paying for the common area maintenance... How is one going to hire a lawyer? Not going to use my personal money for that... A HOA is ONLY funded by it's members.... So who picks up the lawyer fees?

Good point, I guess it’s time for the OP to get more fees from the owners that are paying or find an attorney on a contingency fee.

You may not use your personal money but It looks like the OP is willing to file a lawsuit, so they’re willing to spend their own money. Sometimes that’s what it takes to get boards going, in this case it may work for the homeowners to start pitching in.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Reading through some of the case law on non-mandatory neighborhood and civic associations, I do not like George's HOA's chances at all. For a court to rule in favor of his HOA would be reading too much into the Declaration. Everyone who bought into George's subdivision bought in knowing it was voluntary. All knew that, if insufficient owners chipped in, that proper maintenance could suffer, and insurance might lapse. If I bought into a voluntary HOA with the intention of never paying any fees to help maintain and insure the common areas, and the Board came after me to pay the bills, I would fight it tooth and nail and expect to win, including attorney's fees. I would be disappointed in a board that tried to muscle me with its collective corporate might (meaning the dollars of the Members).

None of the case law cited here http://www.ccfj.net/HOAartFLVMandHOA.htm is directly on point. But there is chatter about how voluntary HOAs may not legally seek fees from non-Members.
PaulJ6
Posts: 990
Posted:
Plus lawsuits in general take a huge amount of time and expense. Count on at least $100,000 and at least a year.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Interesting points, All. I appreciate your thoughts.

PaulJ - our costs here are quite a bit less than yours - and, would require those not wanting to pay the $60/year assessment, to come up with a lot of money to counter. And convincing people of the need and logic of this has met a dead end ... many slam the door right after you tell them your name.

Augustin - I'll take a look and see if there is something applicable or close to applicable. Yeah - this is unexplored territory.

Sheila - the HOA is being held together by 109 out of 189 paying assessments of $60/year. We have enough money to do this as we collected too much for two years, then lowered the assessment because so little was needed. I had to make a point to do this as they we see-sawing up and down based on unknown number paying.

All - the core issue will continue forever with this subdivision, unless some relief is identified. Sooner or later, those that are holding it together will simply fade and then it will end up in receivership. I'm trying to come up with some way to alleviate this inevitability. Frankly, a suit to force payment that comes about after the HOA starts liening properties, might air out the options. The risk is that liening might generate a suit to counter a title clouded by the lien.

Please keep thinking about options.

Thanks!
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
I am not sure that I can see how receivership makes sense with a voluntary HOA. Would receivership fix the problem of insufficient funds, said insufficiency being on account of the voluntary members not being willing to pay more? I mean, all the receiver can do is bill the paying members more. Then one by one, the members stop paying.

I see Florida 720 discusses appointment of a receiver. But this voluntary HOA is not subject at all to Florida statute 720.

It seems to me it's more likely that, when not enough volunteer to pay the dues, the park goes into disrepair; the lights go out; signage looks bad; the HOA foregoes insurance due to not having enough money; et cetera. If an accident happens in the park, and there is no insurance, the victim can try to sue the corporation, but since the corporation has no insurance, there's no point in suing the corporation. I do not think the victim would meet with success suing the owners as individuals, either.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
As George may already know, Florida 617.1432 says a receiver may be appointed to either wind up the corporation's affairs, dissolving assets et cetera; or the appointed receiver may be appointed to keep running the corporation. But if the owners do not volunteer to pay up, then as I opine above, I do not think the receiver can legally force payment any better than the former BoD can. I guess Statute 617 then translates to the voluntary HOA losing the park. Maybe this could be used as incentive to get people to pay. Granted what BoD would want to deal with unpredictable income? How can a BoD of a voluntary HOA plan?
BancsS
Posts: 269
Posted:
George, you are certainly in a unique situation. Do I understand you correctly that the dues are only $60 a year? I understand that the community is composed of many senior citizens but it seems as if a raise in dues might have to be implemented. I live in a rural Iowa lake development of mostly seniors. Our dues are $500 a year but we have a private sewer system that we have to keep maintained which is a necessity. We have community volunteers that mow the common areas. My community owns a tractor and the shed where it is stored. Is it possible to seek volunteers to do some of the entry maintenance?

Just brain storming here but is the park located in an area that would allow access to all members of your city or county? Is it possible to deed the park over to the city or county? That would eliminate some expense such as liability insurance and maintenance of the park. Just sharing some ideas that may not be feasible for your community. - Banks
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 06/23/2019 8:42 AM
Geno,

1. nothing directly related to your question
2. HOA was formed under 617, not 720 (720 is specific to mandatory HOA per FS, I think)
3. We preserved our CCRs under MRTA last year (several years in advance of being extinguished) - preservation relates to the CCRs, not the HOA (my read, only)

Tried to attach, but 200K limits are too tight ...

How about links to website locations for the docs ... you can back out of the specific url to see more of the website (all internal docs are protected) ...all of these docs are recorded:
1. CCR - phase III, but all the same - https://www.mirabellehoa.org/file/document/2647505926/icl88rpSByO7oIHB.pdf
2. Bylaws - https://www.mirabellehoa.org/file/document/3550123990/oJuoUQsyRYo4HXq9.pdf
3. Deed for Park from Declarant - https://www.mirabellehoa.org/file/document/448703706/ixNy9GbowOwLRYCZ.pdf

Thanks, George. I haven't had time yet to look at those docs but I'll probably do so tomorrow. And yes, 200k is extremely tight.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Yes, dues are $60/yr. The HOA ran completely out of money three years ago with a lazy BoD, then the next Board stopped mowing and caring for the entry because there was no money, then they got complaints and threats of the county doing the landscaping which would have then billed to the HOA (not the owners), and would have become payable to the county - so, they raised dues from $50/year to $85/year (yeah, I know this sounds like an incredibly small amount of money). Then they aggressively sought folks to join the HOA (membership = paying the assessment), then they got too much money for two years and were running a surplus ((this is when I became a board member). Some folks stopped paying when the dues were increased to close the budget. The dues had been the same for 24 years.

They were all over the place - not much of a process. We tightened things, obtained insurance (I insisted at the first meeting and was in place following the second meeting) built budgets, set up committees, established a monthly BoD meeting schedule, sent minutes out via email, worked the process for billing reminders (we send bills over and and over until around August) which resulted in a few more paying (the most is current at 109/189 properties), rewrote the Bylaws, preserved under MRTA, and, built a website (www.mirabellehoa.org). The last annual meeting we worked from a presentation tool with screen, etc.

After examining the financials I made the point that we could not continue to collect more money than needed (budget is about $7000/year) - I analyzed and provided various periods vs various amounts, with a burndown of extra funds of not less than 5 years. We settled on a $5000 reserve, and on $60/year - so, we are slowly reducing the excess funds. Everyone knows we will need to increase dues in 3-4 years - this was part of the plan. We wanted to show those not paying that dues would DECREASE if they started to pay - it has made almost no difference.

Community volunteers are not gonna happen - age factor, and apathy factor.

One acre park is located at the entrance to the neighborhood - it has a protected "Heritage Oak" in it ... 8' in diameter, and twenty other large oaks. Here's the deed from the Declarant and the Designation of the Park.

Net - the neighborhood is solvent for now, but will always have issues with membership vs funding. The only certain way for it to survive is if either HOA becomes mandatory, (no way this will happen), or if we can figure out something creative to force everyone to pay a small amount.
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