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BobB31 (Florida)
Posts: 178
Posted:
Due to an alleged misunderstanding about where payments should be sent, a homeowner sent their check for the full annual fee amount to a mailbox whose owners were away for several months. Instead of demanding a new check be immediately sent to the correct address, our former treasurer chose to wait for the absent owner to return and check their mail, intending to waive the late fee if the check was present in that mailbox (it was).

Through a records access request, a former board member (president) discovered this and went through the roof at the last board meeting, asserting that our HOA lawyer had advised us that Florida law forbade us from waiving late fees. As a result of this bullying, the former treasurer and former president resigned from the board, leaving me as the sole director (I was appointed to fill a vacancy during that same meeting). I have spent the past two days rebuilding the board, appointing new volunteers to the vacant positions, and am feeling my way through the mess I inherited.

But the former has already started pressuring me to collect the late fees and interest that he insisted was due to us - his reasoning was that waiving fees would leave us open to charges of selective enforcement, making it impossible to collect late fees in the future (the sky is falling, right?). He forwarded me a copy of the letter that the HOA attorney had sent during his term on the board. It was in response to a challenge from a homeowner to our right to collect late fees, asserting selective enforcement.

Here is an excerpt:

Quote:
... Covenants and Restrictions is clear in that a late fee of $25.00 shall be added to any past
due assessment. Moreover, the aforementioned provision also states that delinquent payments shall be charged interest at eighteen percent.

... In regard to waiver, Florida law is clear that one cannot waive that which is a requirement. See Goodwin v. Blu Murray Ins. Agency, Inc.,
939 So. 2d 1098, 1104 (Fla. 5th DCA 2006). Associations are required to collect assessments, and thus the right is not subject to being waived


I have attempted to read the case he cited and I frankly fail to see the relevance to our situation. But even if it is relevant, I question the conclusion. I think he's basing the "requirement" he cites on the use of "shall" in our covenants. I do intend to discuss it with him next week after the new board is successfully installed. But I'd like to get your take on it before then.

I am worried that since the homeowner was told that the late fees would be waived, any attempt to reinstate them would lead to a lawsuit from this owner, who I am informed is a hothead with deep pockets and a history of using his lawyers to enforce his grudges. Defending a lawsuit is not how I envisioned spending my first month on the job.
Thanks for any input.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
so the payment was on time, but the treasurer recorded it in a late manner. doesn't seem like a case for a late fee to me. let it go.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
just tell the former board member the payment was on time. no late fee was waived. clerical errors were made by the hoa officers.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
One hour with the attorney is going to cost you 12 months of late fees.
If I lived in your community, I would be annoyed with you for wasting our money by going to the attorney over something so insignificant.
The Treas mad a call - Based on the info he had at that time, his decision would be protected under the business judgment rule.
Good advice from others.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
good advice from Steve.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
If the date on the check isn't late, then they are not late. The Stamp date of delivery would also prove that. The Treasurer can't open up mail in someone's mailbox. That is a federal offense. The HOA knew where the payment was and where it was delivered to. It was just a matter of logistics.

Plus for us, late fees/interest are negotiable fees if someone is in a lien status. We will waive those if they are willing to pay the dues owed to avoid legal fees or to just have them pay up.

I always say that late fees work like "speeding tickets" for the HOA. They are punitive charges. There is no need to punish in this case. Interest is just something the state allows one to add to compensate the loss of use of funds. The HOA could have been earning that money if it had been in the bank etc...

So I would tell them that late fees/interest are NOT guaranteed owed funds to the HOA. You can't base your budget on late fees/interest charges. It's only dues. Late fees are punitive and not necessary as member wasn't doing anything punitive. Just a mistake.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Bob that case cited that Assocaitions governing documents which specified that a late charge shall be added.
You need to check your governing documents to see how late fees are addressed.

If your governing documents use the word "may" vs "shall" then the board has the option of imposing, not imposing or simply waiving late charges.

Translation: Are late charges a requirement within your Association or simply an option?
BobB31 (Florida)
Posts: 178
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 06/14/2019 3:11 PM
Bob that case cited that Assocaitions governing documents which specified that a late charge shall be added.
You need to check your governing documents to see how late fees are addressed.

If your governing documents use the word "may" vs "shall" then the board has the option of imposing, not imposing or simply waiving late charges.

Translation: Are late charges a requirement within your Association or simply an option?

The covenants say "shall". This is quite the quandary. My gut says drop this but the former director has a point. Crap.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
But person wasn't late paying... The HOA was late in picking up and cashing in the payment...

Former HOA President
BobB31 (Florida)
Posts: 178
Posted:
It turns out the postmark on the envelope in which the payment actually arrive proves it was late. I contend it was the fault of the former treasurer who failed to respond in time and informed the member that his late fees would be waived. Damn! My gut still says to let this go but I k now what a bulldog this former director is .... and he has a point!
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
So he has a point. So do you to let it go. Is it really worth the few extra dollars of the late fee would make?

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
In this case, I would let it go and simply process the payment as normal.

BTW, the fix to this is to have payments sent to a PO box vs. someones home.
BobB31 (Florida)
Posts: 178
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 06/14/2019 3:11 PM
Bob that case cited that Assocaitions governing documents which specified that a late charge shall be added.

Are we reading the same case? Goodwin v Blu Murray was an employee-employer dispute. Just in case, I checked all the cited cases and the only one that involved an association was the Pelican Island case that involved deed restriction violations.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobB31 on 06/14/2019 7:36 PM
It turns out the postmark on the envelope in which the payment actually arrive proves it was late. I contend it was the fault of the former treasurer who failed to respond in time and informed the member that his late fees would be waived. Damn! My gut still says to let this go but I k now what a bulldog this former director is .... and he has a point!

Go with your gut. This is nickel-dime BS.

You have only so much time to devote to HOA matters. If you have nothing else worthwhile that you could be working on for your HOA with that time, then you can focus on this ridiculousness. But I'm sure that there are other things that, in your mind, are far more important.

If a "former" something-or-other doesn't understand that you get to set your own agenda on how you spend your volunteer time, then tell him to run for your seat.

You are not there to do his bidding. You don't work for him. As a fiduciary, you are there to do what you think is in the best interest of your community. If your gut says move on, and there's no financial impact on the HOA, then move on.

The Treas mad a decision. The Board decided not to overturn that decision. End of discussion.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 06/17/2019 11:28 AM
Posted By BobB31 on 06/14/2019 7:36 PM
It turns out the postmark on the envelope in which the payment actually arrive proves it was late. I contend it was the fault of the former treasurer who failed to respond in time and informed the member that his late fees would be waived. Damn! My gut still says to let this go but I k now what a bulldog this former director is .... and he has a point!


Go with your gut. This is nickel-dime BS.

You have only so much time to devote to HOA matters. If you have nothing else worthwhile that you could be working on for your HOA with that time, then you can focus on this ridiculousness. But I'm sure that there are other things that, in your mind, are far more important.

If a "former" something-or-other doesn't understand that you get to set your own agenda on how you spend your volunteer time, then tell him to run for your seat.

You are not there to do his bidding. You don't work for him. As a fiduciary, you are there to do what you think is in the best interest of your community. If your gut says move on, and there's no financial impact on the HOA, then move on.

The Treas mad a decision. The Board decided not to overturn that decision. End of discussion.

I agree end of discussion.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobB31 on 06/14/2019 3:58 AM
Through a records access request, a former board member (president) discovered this and went through the roof at the last board meeting, asserting that our HOA lawyer had advised us that Florida law forbade us from waiving late fees.

Well, I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure the Florida Statutes do not forbid the waiving of late fees. Furthermore I believe the Coodwin vs. Blu Murray Insurance ruling is probably irrelevant in your situation.

In fact, the Florida Homeowners Association statute, FS 720.3085(3)(a) says, "If the declaration or bylaws so provide, the association may also charge an administrative late fee not to exceed the greater of $25 or 5 percent of the amount of each installment that is paid past the due date."

You cannot charge late fees unless your CC&Rs or Bylaws expressly say that you can.

There are plenty of examples you can find online where late fees are waived as an inducement to get an owner to pay delinquent assessments. I think the board would evaluate each case on an individual basis and maybe offer to waive late fees as part of a strategy to get the owner to pay up.

That Blu Murray Insurance case revolves around issues regarding employment bonuses and whether or not an ex-employy waived his right to be paid after waiting for 6 years to claim them. I think the equivalent would be a board agreeing to waive 6 months of late fees and then, when the owner still doesn't pay, the owner claims years later that the board had agreed to waive all late charges for all time. It's really not comparing apples to apples.
BobB31 (Florida)
Posts: 178
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 06/17/2019 10:08 PM
Posted By BobB31 on 06/14/2019 3:58 AM
Through a records access request, a former board member (president) discovered this and went through the roof at the last board meeting, asserting that our HOA lawyer had advised us that Florida law forbade us from waiving late fees.

Well, I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure the Florida Statutes do not forbid the waiving of late fees. Furthermore I believe the Coodwin vs. Blu Murray Insurance ruling is probably irrelevant in your situation.

In fact, the Florida Homeowners Association statute, FS 720.3085(3)(a) says, "If the declaration or bylaws so provide, the association may also charge an administrative late fee not to exceed the greater of $25 or 5 percent of the amount of each installment that is paid past the due date."

You cannot charge late fees unless your CC&Rs or Bylaws expressly say that you can.

There are plenty of examples you can find online where late fees are waived as an inducement to get an owner to pay delinquent assessments. I think the board would evaluate each case on an individual basis and maybe offer to waive late fees as part of a strategy to get the owner to pay up.

That Blu Murray Insurance case revolves around issues regarding employment bonuses and whether or not an ex-employy waived his right to be paid after waiting for 6 years to claim them. I think the equivalent would be a board agreeing to waive 6 months of late fees and then, when the owner still doesn't pay, the owner claims years later that the board had agreed to waive all late charges for all time. It's really not comparing apples to apples.

Thank you. I'm still curious as to what Tim saw. But I am feeling better about my decision not to attempt to reinstate the late fees that were, rightly or wrongly, waived by our former treasurer.
EllieR1
Posts: 5
Posted:
This nonsense is why people hate HOA's.

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