DanielM12 (California)
Posts: 21
Posts: 21
Posted:
In January, we had our annual election. All directors are up for re-election at the same time. We were short one director, so there was a spot open. A homeowner (we'll call her LK) wrote herself in and got 2 votes. There were two other write in candidates, but each only received one vote. LK was elected to the Board.
In December, Ms. LK was the subject of a disciplinary issue - her two cats were complained about by several different residents. One cat was urinating and defecating on personal property; the other acted aggressively toward people and dogs while being walked in the common area and got into two different homes. One of the owners who had their personal property urinated on by Ms. LK's cat informed the board that she attempted to discuss the matter with Ms. LK, but did not feel "heard" by Ms. LK. When it happened again, this owner decided to report it to the board. The board sent a violation letter to Ms. LK about all the incidents; she was incredulous. We heard the usual "the crazy dog people are out to get me" and "you can't tell me what to do, this is my house" and "there's nothing wrong with cats roaming around." Then we received a third complaint about one of Ms. LK's cats being aggressive towards other pets (dogs) while on leash in the common area, which involved the owner of that dog having to put his body between the cat and his dog when the cat lunged at them both and ended up attaching itself to his pant leg in an attempt to get to the dog!! The board felt this was enough, and decided to schedule a disciplinary hearing in January.
When Ms. LK was elected to the Board, she immediately began a campaign to paint me (president) as the one coming after her because, she claims, I don't like her. The Board held the hearing, heard her evidence and asked two witnesses questions. At first she said she was home, but did not see the incident, but later admitted to being visited by animal control, said she definitely leaves both cats out over night "all the time." Then said the board knows these are her cats and that she leaves them out all the time. We warned Ms. LK that pursuant to the CC&Rs and Rules of Conduct, she had to control the animals, and if she failed to do so we could remove the animal(s) from the property. The board never discussed or contemplated removal of the cats from the property. We were hoping the threat was enough to change the behavior. We were queued up with counsel's opinion - our city has an ordinance against animals roaming at large in condo complexes, like ours, while our CC&Rs do not explicitly say "no cats" in the common area, counsel's opinion is that we were well within reason to require this owner to keep her cats inside or closely monitored or on a leash while in the common area. Ms. LK turned around and created a "the Board president is changing the rules so that all cats have to be on a leash" PR campaign, when that wasn't true. We never contemplated changing the rules; we were just interested in restricting her cats' behavior.
At the February, March, April and May meetings Ms. LK has been disruptive, rude, and in violation of our meeting code of conduct. During open forum, she always signs in to speak and she re-litigates the issue starting all the way back to December when I started to mount this campaign against her, she has her "cat" people with her (they all walk in together, leave together after open forum is done). It's a real mob mentality. At the conclusion of the February meeting, Ms. LK threatened me. As she departed, and even though it wasn't on the agenda, she said, "If you try to fine me I'll do everything I can to take you down." I viewed this as a threat so I called the police. I got a RO. We settled on a stipulation and order, no RO was granted. We went about our lives rather peacefully from there.
Fast forward to April, when Ms. LK sent a number of increasingly annoying emails to our association manager. Ms. LK demanded documents, but not allowing a reasonable time for the manager to produce them. Our association manager produced documents, but each time Ms. LK either changed her mind about what she needed or made up reasons why document production wasn't either fast enough or sufficient. Finally, Ms. LK started to copy our manager's boss because she claims our manager was acting illegally and unethically by siding with the board (Ms. LK viewed the slow document production as being impeded by me, but I had no idea it was even going on until I saw the last email). In a not so smart move, I replied to Ms. LK and copied her boss. I laid out the rules, the facts and defended our manager against Ms. LK's accusations. Ms. LK went back to court to get a RO against me. The court granted a temporary RO.
At our May meeting, Ms. LK was again disruptive and refused to follow rules of decorum. Because she feels I don't like her she openly admits she doesn't have to listen to me as chair. I restricted open forum to 30 minutes - a rather generous amount of time. There was far more discussion on how cat rules are not being changed than is necessary, but I felt they should be heard. Ms. LK attempted to make a motion to create a discipline committee that consisted of only her and the cat owners at the meeting to decide my "fate" based on the harassment she's faced. The motion didn't go anywhere. She argues that it is not fair for the board to be the judge and the jury - although she's now part of it. When it came time to conduct *actual* business on the agenda, like vote on applications, review correspondence, plan for our National Night Out even, and vote on executive session items, Ms. LK packed her belongings and walked out. Not without a parting shot at me, "Enjoy it while it lasts (name) because it won't last long."
Ms. LK has members upset that the HOA is paying for my attorney fees. My conduct, the board feels, was in good faith and in support of the business of the association. Ms. LK has folks thinking this is merely a "personal squabble." Ms. LK argues her attorney fees should be paid for too (but she's not represented), but the Board created a committee for this and that committee declined her request at the advice of counsel. At the RO hearing, she told the judge she feels my attorney should be "disbarred" (when she meant disqualified) from the case, because of a conflict of interest. Ms. LK could not identify for the judge what the conflict is.
Questions: If you're the chair of the meeting, what do you do? The director "doesn't like you" and doesn't listen to what you say. Aside from warn meeting attendees that they are in violation of the rules of meeting conduct and can be thrown out of the meeting, what can be done about this disruptive member / director during meetings? I know we always have the right to adjourn, but would you do that? We have real and legitimate business to do at these meetings, not just sit around and listen to people re-litigate the same points. Do we call the police? Do we pay for private security to sit in the room during a meeting?
In December, Ms. LK was the subject of a disciplinary issue - her two cats were complained about by several different residents. One cat was urinating and defecating on personal property; the other acted aggressively toward people and dogs while being walked in the common area and got into two different homes. One of the owners who had their personal property urinated on by Ms. LK's cat informed the board that she attempted to discuss the matter with Ms. LK, but did not feel "heard" by Ms. LK. When it happened again, this owner decided to report it to the board. The board sent a violation letter to Ms. LK about all the incidents; she was incredulous. We heard the usual "the crazy dog people are out to get me" and "you can't tell me what to do, this is my house" and "there's nothing wrong with cats roaming around." Then we received a third complaint about one of Ms. LK's cats being aggressive towards other pets (dogs) while on leash in the common area, which involved the owner of that dog having to put his body between the cat and his dog when the cat lunged at them both and ended up attaching itself to his pant leg in an attempt to get to the dog!! The board felt this was enough, and decided to schedule a disciplinary hearing in January.
When Ms. LK was elected to the Board, she immediately began a campaign to paint me (president) as the one coming after her because, she claims, I don't like her. The Board held the hearing, heard her evidence and asked two witnesses questions. At first she said she was home, but did not see the incident, but later admitted to being visited by animal control, said she definitely leaves both cats out over night "all the time." Then said the board knows these are her cats and that she leaves them out all the time. We warned Ms. LK that pursuant to the CC&Rs and Rules of Conduct, she had to control the animals, and if she failed to do so we could remove the animal(s) from the property. The board never discussed or contemplated removal of the cats from the property. We were hoping the threat was enough to change the behavior. We were queued up with counsel's opinion - our city has an ordinance against animals roaming at large in condo complexes, like ours, while our CC&Rs do not explicitly say "no cats" in the common area, counsel's opinion is that we were well within reason to require this owner to keep her cats inside or closely monitored or on a leash while in the common area. Ms. LK turned around and created a "the Board president is changing the rules so that all cats have to be on a leash" PR campaign, when that wasn't true. We never contemplated changing the rules; we were just interested in restricting her cats' behavior.
At the February, March, April and May meetings Ms. LK has been disruptive, rude, and in violation of our meeting code of conduct. During open forum, she always signs in to speak and she re-litigates the issue starting all the way back to December when I started to mount this campaign against her, she has her "cat" people with her (they all walk in together, leave together after open forum is done). It's a real mob mentality. At the conclusion of the February meeting, Ms. LK threatened me. As she departed, and even though it wasn't on the agenda, she said, "If you try to fine me I'll do everything I can to take you down." I viewed this as a threat so I called the police. I got a RO. We settled on a stipulation and order, no RO was granted. We went about our lives rather peacefully from there.
Fast forward to April, when Ms. LK sent a number of increasingly annoying emails to our association manager. Ms. LK demanded documents, but not allowing a reasonable time for the manager to produce them. Our association manager produced documents, but each time Ms. LK either changed her mind about what she needed or made up reasons why document production wasn't either fast enough or sufficient. Finally, Ms. LK started to copy our manager's boss because she claims our manager was acting illegally and unethically by siding with the board (Ms. LK viewed the slow document production as being impeded by me, but I had no idea it was even going on until I saw the last email). In a not so smart move, I replied to Ms. LK and copied her boss. I laid out the rules, the facts and defended our manager against Ms. LK's accusations. Ms. LK went back to court to get a RO against me. The court granted a temporary RO.
At our May meeting, Ms. LK was again disruptive and refused to follow rules of decorum. Because she feels I don't like her she openly admits she doesn't have to listen to me as chair. I restricted open forum to 30 minutes - a rather generous amount of time. There was far more discussion on how cat rules are not being changed than is necessary, but I felt they should be heard. Ms. LK attempted to make a motion to create a discipline committee that consisted of only her and the cat owners at the meeting to decide my "fate" based on the harassment she's faced. The motion didn't go anywhere. She argues that it is not fair for the board to be the judge and the jury - although she's now part of it. When it came time to conduct *actual* business on the agenda, like vote on applications, review correspondence, plan for our National Night Out even, and vote on executive session items, Ms. LK packed her belongings and walked out. Not without a parting shot at me, "Enjoy it while it lasts (name) because it won't last long."
Ms. LK has members upset that the HOA is paying for my attorney fees. My conduct, the board feels, was in good faith and in support of the business of the association. Ms. LK has folks thinking this is merely a "personal squabble." Ms. LK argues her attorney fees should be paid for too (but she's not represented), but the Board created a committee for this and that committee declined her request at the advice of counsel. At the RO hearing, she told the judge she feels my attorney should be "disbarred" (when she meant disqualified) from the case, because of a conflict of interest. Ms. LK could not identify for the judge what the conflict is.
Questions: If you're the chair of the meeting, what do you do? The director "doesn't like you" and doesn't listen to what you say. Aside from warn meeting attendees that they are in violation of the rules of meeting conduct and can be thrown out of the meeting, what can be done about this disruptive member / director during meetings? I know we always have the right to adjourn, but would you do that? We have real and legitimate business to do at these meetings, not just sit around and listen to people re-litigate the same points. Do we call the police? Do we pay for private security to sit in the room during a meeting?
--Daniel