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BruceF2 (California)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I live in a small HOA community with about 100+ homes. Our HOA is now going through the process of updating our CC&Rs (not done since HOA was built in 1996). The board is now being controlled by Proxy voting.
I would like for the community to eliminate Proxy voting of any kind in our new CC&Rs. How can this be accomplished as the new President and Vice President of the board were elected by the use of said Proxies?
Are there arguments I can refer to in order to eliminate all Proxy voting? I will be writing letters to my community through a mailing list I have acquired through the association.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Please clarify: what do you mean by "the board is being controlled by proxy voting"?

In my experience, the only use for proxies is in the annual election, and you really don't want to eliminate them since they count toward establishing quorum and allow the meeting to take place. It's perfectly proper for board candidates to solicit proxies from the membership to win an election. On the other hand, there is no proxy voting at board meetings, as far as I know - board members must attend the meeting.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Without Proxies many associations could not reach Quorum thus allowing the existing BOD to stay in place. Do not shoot yourself in your own foot.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
You're talking about proxies as if they're something different than voting. They're not. They're another way to vote but that's all, really. One gets elected by receiving more votes than the other guy, the difference between getting those votes through proxies or ballots is immaterial.

Gather your own proxies if most owners don't show up to vote in person. The same owner can give more than one proxy; the one with the latest date will negate any earlier ones.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Seems someone is being aggressive in gathering Proxies and this upsets the OP. Poor OP is being bested in politics.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Absentee or mail-in ballots are OK in all CA HOAs--since 2006. Ballots must be sent to all owners and they are secret ballots. Because owners can vote by mail, there's really no need for proxies in CA HOAs. No one had voted by proxy in our HOA since 2007. IF we ever rewrite our bylaws, we will eliminate proxy voting--simply no need in CA.

Quorum for our HOA is 25% of Ownrs = about 50 votes of our 200 condo units. VERY easy to make quorum because of mail in ballot even though 25% of our Owners are landlords & another 10-12% live here only part time. We usually have about 90 a ballots returned with maybe 30 attending our annual mtg.

Unless your bylaws say otherwise, Bruce, Owners elect directors and directors, in an open meeting, elect officers like Prez, VP annually right after the election for directors in an "Organization Meeting."

But are you saying, Bruce, that somehow proxies elect the Prez & VP?? Or are you saying the prez & VP run around collecting proxies before the annual meeting to elect themselves and their buddies as directors?? Or are you saying that during board meetings, the Prz & VP vote as proxies for absent directors??? If so, that is completely wrong unless your bylaws weirdly give directors that choice.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Absentee or mail-in ballots are OK in all CA HOAs--since 2006. Ballots must be sent to all owners and they are secret ballots. Because owners can vote by mail, there's really no need for proxies in CA HOAs. No one has voted by proxy in our HOA since 2007. IF we ever rewrite our bylaws, we will eliminate proxy voting--simply no need in CA.

Quorum for our HOA is 25% of Owners = about 50 votes of our 200 condo units. VERY easy to make quorum because of mail in ballots even though 25% of our Owners are landlords & another 10-12% live here only part time. We usually have about 90 ballots returned with maybe 30 attending our annual mtg.

Unless your bylaws say otherwise, Bruce, Owners elect directors and directors, in an open meeting, elect officers like Prez, VP annually right after the election for directors in an "Organization Meeting."

But are you saying, Bruce, that somehow proxies elect the Prez & VP?? Or are you saying the prez & VP run around collecting proxies before the annual meeting to elect themselves and their buddies as directors?? Or are you saying that during board meetings, the Prz & VP vote as proxies for absent directors??? If so, that is completely wrong unless your bylaws weirdly give directors that choice.

In CA since 2006, Bruce HOAs must have election rules. Does yours?? Do you have aproerty mgr who can help you explain your situation more clearly to us?
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
If you are re writing the CC&Rs it should probably be eliminated. Proxies are a builders tool more than a homeowner tool. It is how they control boards while they are in charge. If you are having trouble making quorum simply lower the percentage quorum needed in the new CC&Rs.

I am not an expert on proxies and as Kerry stated I recently moved from Ca. boards and they were not in play in my HOA.
BruceF2 (California)
Posts: 4
Posted:
New to this HOA/board stuff…..explain “OP,” and what is the purpose of the proxy…..why would YOU want to make sure they are a must for a small HOA?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
As a newbie and BECAUSE CA is different than many other states, visit davis-stirling.com a website by CA HOA attorneys. It's like holy scripture to me. Scroll the Index until you get to elections or proxies and read about it.

You didn't answer any of my questions, so I don't know WHAT the prez & VP are up to and whether or not it's OK. and I'm not expert on proxies since our HOA doesn't use them.
BruceF2 (California)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I do appreciate your input. While I’ve only been here for a couple of years, and this is the first HOA I’ve ever been a part of.....I wouldn’t do it again.
I’m trying to gain as much insigh to educate myself, and, maybe, other homeowners.

The CC&Rs need to be updated, and now is a great chance to offer our community a big opportunity for needed change.

I simply see no reason for proxy use for any reason.. As I’ve found from others in this forum, lowering the percentage required for a quorum might be a better option.

Your insights does help.
BruceF2 (California)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thanks Mark.....GREAT INFORMATION.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
The use of proxies is allowed in Texas. With the advent of absentee and electronic voting, they are not as important in attaining quorum as they once were as the absentee or electronic ballot is considered a virtual proxy for quorum purposes. As I recounted in a recent post, proxies can be misunderstood. I have seen them misused in an association in which cumulative voting was allowed.

Several years ago our legislature, in a stroke of brilliance, enacted changes to the property code which allows associations to seek proxies for the purpose of a quorum only. This has completely eliminated the lack of quorum issues for associations we manage, property management colleagues have told me the same. Allowing a proxy for quorum only provides the owner the means to ensure the meeting takes place without designating the President or another person as the proxy holder.

Of course the proxy for quorum only process is something of a cop out as it also allows the owner to take a pass on becoming involved in the election process and determining who is the most qualified or experienced candidate, etc.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Many legal experts in California have come out and suggested eliminating the use of proxies, since all important decisions have to be by secret ballot. Unfortunately, most associations have no clue on the proper use of proxies and many associations do not provide them or are they legally obligated to do so.

Some legal experts also suggest eliminating the need for quorum, especially as it pertains to the election of directors. Others suggest a low number such as 10%. Someone tell me what good is a 10% quorum, when it takes 51% to change Bylaws and 66 2/3% to change CCRs or 51% to recall director(s)?

Proxies are for well run corporations, not for a HOA.
RoyalP
Posts: 1,104
Posted:
OP = original poster
AnthonyS5 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
GenoS,

Is it even "legal" and accepted as an official document, for a member of the community to create a proxy to gather votes (other than the one prepared by a board/attorney) and use it in order to facilitate a membership vote to amend docs, or at elections? In our community you cannot vote for directors by proxy, but you can use proxies for all other matters (amendments). It is difficult to amend anything when you don't receive the required percentage.
AnthonyS5 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
GenoS,

Is it even "legal" and accepted as an official document, for a member of the community to create a proxy to gather votes (other than the one prepared by a board/attorney) and use it in order to facilitate a membership vote to amend docs, or at elections? In our community you cannot vote for directors by proxy, but you can use proxies for all other matters (amendments). It is difficult to amend anything when you don't receive the required percentage.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
We use Proxies in two ways. A Proxy counts toward establishing a Quorum. Secondly one can use a Proxy to vote on any issue to be voted on.

Our Quorum requirement is 20% and without Proxies counting toward establishing a Quorum, we would not always obtain a Quorum.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnthonyS5 on 05/04/2019 3:25 AM
Is it even "legal" and accepted as an official document, for a member of the community to create a proxy to gather votes (other than the one prepared by a board/attorney) and use it in order to facilitate a membership vote to amend docs, or at elections? In our community you cannot vote for directors by proxy, but you can use proxies for all other matters (amendments). It is difficult to amend anything when you don't receive the required percentage.

In a Florida condo association it's illegal to use proxies in an election of directors. Proxies are still allowed for other homeowner votes (e.g. amendments, waiving reserves, etc.).

DBPR Arbitration Case 2009-01-2882 resulted in a decision that the right of homeowners to vote is created and governed by FS 720. FS 720 provides the exact requirements of a proxy form in order for it to be valid. The HOA cannot impose further requirements, i.e. force homeowners to use the association's "official proxy" form. If you wrote your own proxy on toilet paper and it met the requirements of FS 720 then the association would be required to accept it.

With regards to proxies, again from the same arbitration case, an HOA's only options are to prohibit proxies completely or accept proxies executed according to the legislated instructions.
AnthonyS5 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
GenoS,

Thank you for this information. As stated, members petitioned the board to hold a special meeting to amend three bylaw amendments regarding voting for Directors of the board. The petition was certified, but the boards stance subsequent to this, is that the attorney stated it is up to the "petition committee" to provide all additional documentation to facilitate the vote (i.e. proxy, proposed amendments, and/or cover letter). The board claims to only be responsible for the official mailing of the special meeting itself, that's it. We now have only approx. eighteen days to promote it and hold the vote for this. This was my reason for posting the proxy question, so thank you.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
That all sounds about right. The board has to do what's necessary to announce, notice, and hold the meeting but everything else is up to the petitioning members. The board doesn't have to do the "dirty work" for you lol. Get those proxies out, go door-to-door if needed with proxies and copies of the proposed amendment. It's a lot of work but you seem to be doing OK so far.

I take it the majority of your board is not in favor of the propsed amendment? That probably goes without saying.
AnthonyS5 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
They definitely don't support it for obvious reasons. Will reply again with the outcome.

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