To Serve or Not to Serve?

Started by CathyA3 • 7 replies • 569 views

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CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 04/26/2019 9:06 AM
I almost didn't notice Cathy's posts. I think she shoulda started a new thread. But there's a lot here, so.... here goes.

I was a director who DID stay on once our board moved into electing and supporting a president who thinks she knows everything. We had a vacancy and a minion also was appointed. Then another vacancy which was left open until the annual meeting, Oct.'18, 6 months later. At that time, I decided not to seek reelection as I was getting nowhere re: supporting our documents, following our state statutes, etc. (I'd had several years of success prior to 10/16, when things stated getting bad.

Now on the outside and working with other owners, we're fighting the board's worst decision and regularly attending monthly open (required in CA) meetings to fight them. We're preparing for 10/19 annual mtg. when it's looking like we get our Board back. Two men who were elected last Oct., will, we believe, support us now that they've seen first hand how dishonest the prez & VP are.

There would have been no benefit to my community if I'd been reelected. So we're trying this other approach that has involved some mailers, etc.

When's you election Cathy?

I kinda hijacked a previous thread, but I wanted to reply to Kerry's comment above so I've started this new thread.

In response to Kerry's question, our next election isn't until next March. However, I've already resigned from the board and am getting my condo ready to sell.

There were a number of things driving that decision. The big one actually wasn't concerns about the the new board but rather the hot real estate market in my area. I took a big hit when I sold my previous home in 2014, but condos in my community are selling in a few days at close to their asking prices, and this is a chance to recoup most of what I lost. So money is the main driver.

After that is the fact that I was burned out after several years on the board. I've also decided that condo ownership is not for me. Any condo community is only as good as the folks who take on the responsibility of running it, and the composition of the board can change practically overnight. As a condo owner I'm forced into legal and financial relationships with people I didn't choose. And now that I've learned exactly what that means, I feel like I have to serve on the board so that I at least know what's going on. My home had turned into a demanding job with odd hours and lousy pay, and that wasn't what I'd had in mind.

I understand that this is a personal decision, and that others can look at the same facts that I did and come to a different conclusion. The popularity of HOA and COA communities suggest that many folks don't agree with me (or they don't understand what they're getting into). But I'm happy with my decision.

TimM11
Posts: 354

Posted:

I replied in the other thread, but to me, it's a perfectly understandable decision.

I know there are some people who deliberately want to live in HOAs or COAs, but I think most people are ambivalent at best towards them, if not hostile. Most people I know would just as soon not live in one. It's more that the kind of home they want (and/or can afford) is in one, either due to being multi-family housing (condos and townhouses) or being located in an area where they are the standard and maybe even required (i.e. many newer SFH neighborhoods), so they deal with it.

I also think that HOAs/COAs need to be more closely regulated at the state/local level, with strong transparency requirements, due to the outsize effect they can have on people's lives. The laws that are in place to do this don't always have enough teeth.

RoyalP
Posts: 1,104

Posted:

..... The popularity of HOA and COA communities suggest that many folks don't agree with me (or they don't understand what they're getting into). But I'm happy with my decision. .....

Soooo, you're gonna 'list it' (not love it)

Best of luck in your new digs

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimM11 on 04/26/2019 11:53 AM
I replied in the other thread, but to me, it's a perfectly understandable decision.
...

I also think that HOAs/COAs need to be more closely regulated at the state/local level, with strong transparency requirements, due to the outsize effect they can have on people's lives. The laws that are in place to do this don't always have enough teeth.

Stronger laws may help, but I think much of the difficulty results from the legal structure of HOAs and COAs. Some examples:

* Every neighborhood has a few of "those neighbors" who can't get along with anyone. In non-HOA communities, you can pretty much avoid/ignore them and go on your merry way. However, HOAs and board meetings seem to be favorite targets of these folks. They can disrupt board meetings and keep important things from getting done. Between meetings they can cause issues by screaming at the lawn service or harassing dogs walkers and the like, which often means addressing the latest explosion to keep it from escalating. Or they file lawsuits that force the association to spend time and dollars responding to them. All this stuff negatively affects the other members of the association, unavoidably and through no fault of their own.

* In the last year or so I read about a condo community (I want to say in the DC area, maybe?) that had a resident who continually harassed a neighbor who was of a different race. Pretty vile stuff, if I remember correctly, and a lot of it happened without any other witnesses. The board did what they could, but basically it was a he said-she said situation for which there was no independent evidence, and the harasser just would not stop. Last I heard the victim filed a Fair Housing lawsuit against the association. As an experienced board member, what would you do if faced with a similar situation, no proof, and a bad actor who simply would not behave? This will end up costing all of the other homeowners a great deal of money, even if the association is eventually exonerated. It punishes people for living in the same community as a vile human being. How is that right? But it's the consequence of the legal structure of the COA.

I believe HOAs/COAs need a serious re-think, but I doubt they'll get it since too many non-participants benefit financially from having them.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 04/26/2019 1:53 PM

* In the last year or so I read about a condo community (I want to say in the DC area, maybe?) that had a resident who continually harassed a neighbor who was of a different race. Pretty vile stuff, if I remember correctly, and a lot of it happened without any other witnesses. The board did what they could, but basically it was a he said-she said situation for which there was no independent evidence, and the harasser just would not stop. Last I heard the victim filed a Fair Housing lawsuit against the association. As an experienced board member, what would you do if faced with a similar situation, no proof, and a bad actor who simply would not behave?

Condos and HOAs often have covenants about nuisances by adjoining neighbors. E.g. loud music at 2 PM. Barking dogs. Hard surface, way noisy flooring being installed by one's neighbors. A competent Board will have a policy about the evidence needed for it to enforce a complaint. In the hypothetical of which you speak, the complainant has to provide evidence of the harassment. (I just about don't care whether it is protected class harassment or just general harassment. Either is probably regulated under the covenants and/or discrimination law.) The Board explains the policy as best it can to the complainant. The Board also should suggest the complainant make a police report.

I wonder if you have in mind the following lawsuit, Wetzel v. Glen St. Andrews, U. S. Court of Appeals, 2018: https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca7/17-1322/17-1322-2018-08-27.html

But I am with you about condo life and probably HOA life as well. I am ready to give it up for at least awhile. The market where I am is doing exactly what your market is doing.

JaredC (Texas)
Posts: 264

Posted:

I agree with you 100% Cathy. Being financially bound to neighbors in a condo/town home situation is a freaking nightmare! IMHO the only people who do it have no clue what they're getting into.

I was our board president for about 12 years until I quit one day. Since I left the board has turned into an utter and complete nightmare. So much so that all of our properties are now in serious legal jeopardy of being condemned. Why? Because the board REFUSES to do something very very simple to remedy the problem. Worse yet my idiot neighbors don't seem to notice or care. Just this week I am struggling to get the 25% of homeowner votes necessary to have a special members meeting wherein both our PM and HOA attorney will attend to hopefully be able to get through to these morons.

It's an amazing thing. I would run for the board again ONLY to better protect my investment. My neighbors are complete idiots. I want to move.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

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Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 04/26/2019 11:26 AM
Any condo community is only as good as the folks who take on the responsibility of running it, and the composition of the board can change practically overnight.

Very perceptive, CathyA3. To me that's becoming the biggest concern. A great board this year can morph into something ugly in a few short years (months, perhaps). And you work hard to turn a bad board into a good one and before you know it, all that work has gone down the drain and new board members who are awful are in charge again. It's good for short term satisfaction, I guess.

I think you'll be able to lock in some longer-term satisfaction by taking advantage of the RE market that you outlined. There's more than enough justification to do that.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Lots of good responses here. Here are a few more, for what they're worth

First, Cathy has nothing to apologize for. She did the best she could with her board but in the end it was like hitting one's head against a brick wall and enjoying your home isn't the same. You have to do what's most important to your health and happiness and sometimes walking away is the best choice.

Personally I think HOAs are best for townhouse and high rise condo communities because you have shared walls. For single family homes, people need to deal with neighbor issues on their own - you may not like the hot pink house, but as long as the neighbor isn't monopolizing all the parking spaces and cleans up after her dog, maybe you should learn to live with the color.

If you really want to get rid of HOAs, you need to chat with your legislators because the more infrastructure they don't have to worry about (streets, lights, etc.), the more you'll see HOW's being established. There's always a trade off - maybe people should be more willing to pay the taxes to buy this stuff and skip the HOW's worrying about it

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

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