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BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
I had an experience as an observer at a recent Annual Meeting involving proxy votes and wish to solicit input from all of you. I am a director of the association but was not up for reelection.

Two director seats were on the ballot, one an expired term, the second to fill the final year of an unexpired term following a resignation due to relocation.

At least two of four candidates for the vacant director positions had been assigned proxies by other owners. Of those two, a director whose term was expiring did not actively solicit votes, proxies, or campaign. A third candidate contacted his neighbors to vote for him and may have been given one or more proxies. The fourth candidate apparently did not campaign, other than two neighbors no one in the association had met her previously even though she has lived in the association for about two years.

Following the election, the female not-elected candidate was talking with the director who had been reelected (he is the one who did not solicit votes or campaign but was given proxies unasked by neighbors and friends who could not attend). Based on questions the not-elected candidate was asking, she did not understand the proxy voting process. or proxies at all.

During the conversation, the female not-elected candidate asked the reelected director if he held proxies, which he said he did. She asked if he voted for himself, he stated he had. She became exceedingly angry, stated he was unethical, and walked away calling him and others involved with the Board "cheaters".

She then approached the Executive Director of the management company, who attended the meeting to observe and assist the PM, and asked if a proxy holder could vote the proxies held for him or herself. The ED confirmed the proxy holder could so vote. The non-elected candidate left the room angrily.

I have always understood a proxy holder is free to vote proxies for whomever he or she wished (setting aside directed proxies). In this particular case, the reelected director had been told by more than one owner that he had been assigned the owner's proxy and he was to vote for himself and whichever other candidate he felt he could most effectively work with.

I don't think I am missing something here but would appreciate input from you.

The even more disturbing aspect of this scenario is the not-elected candidate stated on her candidate form, stated at a meet the candidates session, and in the time allocated to her at the Annual Meeting prior to the election, that she holds CAM and CMCA certifications from CAI. After she left, I showed the Executive Director of the management company her candidate form. To say he was shocked and surprised is an understatement.

Comments?
JaredC (Texas)
Posts: 264
Posted:
You dodged a bullet. Thank goodness the NEFC (Non-Elected Female Candidate) wasn't elected. That's just drama in a bottle.

Our proxies are like yours i.e. people can choose to vote on the proxy or give the proxy holder permission to vote for whomever they please. Nothing wrong with that at all.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Bill and Jared,
So I am relatively new to Texas only being here less than 2 years. I was elected at our last annual meeting and was surprised that since I knew very few people in our Large HOA 1200+ that I could get elected. I did have 8 years of prior board experience but no name recognition. Our Board has only been a homeowner board for 2 years. The builders are still finishing the last couple of hundred homes and still have voting rights. My question for you is are the builder proxies what you are speaking about in both of your posts.

I have been involved in 3 other elections and every homeowner votes for the candidate of his choice. No proxies.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
The last part was the punch line. This person is CAM and CMCA certified and did not know that not only is voting proxies for one's self allowed, but it is commonly practiced at HOAs? Pfft. BillH10, you are missing nothing.

I would say this is an opportunity to educate the objecting non-elected candidate/HOA member. At one of my HOAs, some newbie motioned at the annual meeting to disallow candidates from voting proxies for themselves. It was not on the agenda, so the new board instead took it as a suggestion. The case law on proxies is clear that the only limits that one may place on proxies are those explicitly given in the Bylaws. The newbie's suggestion was rejected.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Bill,

Does the losing candidate’s sex matter?

Why would you note “female” when describing the person?
RoyalP
Posts: 1,104
Posted:
... because one c#nt use the c*nt word ...

even if the definition is fully met

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Jeez, George, can't you stop yourself from being so picky? Maybe try really hard to stick to the topic.

I'm curious, though. I assume it'd be simple to learn whether NEFC is certified, right? If she is, I think I'll apply for the cert since I know nothing about proxies either.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Not being picky - BUT, I am sensitive to the disrespectful manner in which some board members, and members of the communities respond to women.

The OP called out the sex of this person on purpose - he probably can't help it - but, it IS an issue. We've all seen it.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Responses for MarkM19 and GeorgeS21

Mark, not builder proxies. The Association has been owner controlled since 2005 or 2006. In Texas we can use proxies for Annual and other Member meetings, including a proxy choice for the purpose of meeting the quorum requirements only. A proxy can also assign voting rights to a named member of the Board, usually the President of the Association or anyone else selected by the person executing the proxy. The named proxy holder does not have to be another owner nor do they have to reside in the Association. We can also use as absentee ballots and electronic voting. If an absentee ballot or electronic ballot is submitted, it is also considered a proxy for quorum purposes.

George, I edited that post about five times to make clear who was who. I found the use of the female pronoun helped me narrate what took place and identify the participants.

Trust me, 34 years in management in a major American corporation which was the target of a major female discrimination ruling in 1974, most of those years in California, thoroughly cleansed me of any biases toward females, minorities, sexual orientations, etc. I deliberately did not use other descriptive words in my narration which are often used in describing the behavior and actions of one sex or the other. (I know there are discussions underway about the use of more than two sexual orientations on drivers licenses and such, please do not jump on me about that.)
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillH10 on 04/25/2019 10:47 AM
Based on questions the not-elected candidate was asking, she did not understand the proxy voting process. or proxies at all.

Let the good times roll.

Quote:
Posted By BillH10 on 04/25/2019 10:47 AM
She became exceedingly angry, stated he was unethical, and walked away calling him and others involved with the Board "cheaters".

She then approached the Executive Director of the management company, who attended the meeting to observe and assist the PM, and asked if a proxy holder could vote the proxies held for him or herself. The ED confirmed the proxy holder could so vote. The non-elected candidate left the room angrily.

A pity that people who don't understand how proxies work think they're board material. They get angry as a result of their own ignorance and resort to accusing others of cheating.

Quote:
Posted By BillH10 on 04/25/2019 10:47 AM
I have always understood a proxy holder is free to vote proxies for whomever he or she wished (setting aside directed proxies). In this particular case, the reelected director had been told by more than one owner that he had been assigned the owner's proxy and he was to vote for himself and whichever other candidate he felt he could most effectively work with.

I don't think I am missing something here but would appreciate input from you.

That's about it. Someone who holds a general proxy from another owner can cast a vote on that owner's behalf as if he was standing in that owner's shoes. That's pretty standard.

Quote:
Posted By BillH10 on 04/25/2019 10:47 AM
The even more disturbing aspect of this scenario is the not-elected candidate stated on her candidate form, stated at a meet the candidates session, and in the time allocated to her at the Annual Meeting prior to the election, that she holds CAM and CMCA certifications from CAI. After she left, I showed the Executive Director of the management company her candidate form. To say he was shocked and surprised is an understatement.

She's probably lying about them. If she really does hold those credentials from CAI it's a shame there's no way to get them revoked. I wouldn't want her anywhere near the board of my local kennel club.

You dodged a bullet is right.

Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 04/25/2019 12:57 PM
Not being picky - BUT, I am sensitive to the disrespectful manner in which some board members, and members of the communities respond to women.

The OP called out the sex of this person on purpose - he probably can't help it - but, it IS an issue. We've all seen it.

That is being picky and is not the issue here. "He probably can't help it", that's incredibly disrespectful. No one here is the arbiter of all the other BS going on these days.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Basically there are two types of Proxies and one could be a combination of both:

1. Directed Proxy. Tells the Proxy Holder how to vote for you. As an example: You will vote YES for Tom and Mary for election to the BOD. You will vote NO on any dues increase

2. Undirected Proxy (open ended). Allows the Proxy Holder to vote anyway they wish on any items.

3. Combination Proxy. One that combines the above 1 & 2. Such as you will vote for Tom and Mary, but you are free to vote any way you wish on all other items.

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