Sweet Fringe Benefits

Lisa:

Where can I get a job application! Seriously, with benefits like that sign me up. Your board needs to veto that. The jobs that I have been involved in routinely pay for insurance for a single person, but only a portion of the family coverage.

If your HOA is going to pay for all the health insurance then the listed benefits need to be lower like a $25 co-pay, decent dedectible, etc. I think you should have the board lay out their health plans for their individuals jobs and look at something along those lines.

If you are prone to hiring illegal aliens, I suggest you stop. The Federal government may be coming down hard on you soon. The management company should NOT be party to hiring ANY illegal and should check the SS # on all of them if they are hired directly by you.

I agree with Patrick. Why aren't you using contractors? Our entire association of 231 homes only has 3 contractors (not including the management company) with a total of seven employees. Our homeowners would be up in arms if we were putting out close to $15,000 a month to give them insurance with full benefits. Heck! Most of the homeowners don't have that type of insurance.

Maybe it's something that should be put in front of the homeowners?

LisaS11:
I suggest you immediately investigate management companies who will provide your community's needs who do NOT require payment of "their employees" medical plans. The management company (and workers they use) is NOT your employee, but your agent, and as such, the mgmt. company needs to responsibly, and legally, fund their own employees' wages and plans.

I wonder if your mgmt. company lists these same workers as employees when filing their tax forms each year, and thus would have to contribute to the gvt. funds established. Think about what they are telling you--that your community is their employer....???

IMO, I would steer clear of a management company who is an 'umbrella' for other companies of which communities require services--landscaping, snow removal, etc. There is a definite conflict of interest here and the mgmt. company is ensuring all their 'bases' are covered, at your community's expense.

I would do my own networking of landscapers and contract with one who responsibly has employees working for them to complete work for their 'accounts'---Community Associations.

Lisa, does your BOD realize that there is not a medical association in this country that will insure someone without a SS#.

If you haven't received a No match letter you shouldn't waste your time.

LisaS11:
Your community's problem (your problem too) is NOT whether legal or illegal aliens (40 employees???) without SS#s are providing services to your community BUT WHETHER you want to continue to be further immersed in the 'stinky situation' your management company is asking you to be part of.

If you think about it, your management company has declared YOU, the XYZ Community THEIR WORKERS' EMPLOYER, instead of themselves. There are many responsibilities and tax implications for an employer to assume, but it would seem this company is wiggling out of it, by using you.

I would ask the mgmt. company for the SS's of these workers, since YOU WOULD BE THE EMPLOYER. I would ask the management company to provide references from other Communities who have agreed to this "benefit package" they are requesting you to sign. Most importantly, I would speak to an attorney on this entire situation and advise the mgmt. company that you want to delay signing until you receive your attorney's counsel on behalf of all community residents.

Having an employee based company can be very advantageous. You have much more control over what gets done, how, when and who's on staff. The big thing is you are not supplying the PROFIT for a number of different contractors.

Instead you are saving the profit and sharing it with your employees in the form of quality UNION type benefits. In this day and age of cheapskate employers your HOA should be proud to stand head and shoulders over the rest. That's how you get and keep good people.

I'm sure your HOA has made a large investment over the years in equipment, supplies and human resources (people/jobs). Don't be so pretentious to think you know what 35 years of experience has taught this HOA. Tweaking something is fine but turning everything upside down because you and some anonymous bulletin board posters who know nothing about your HOA is an utterly ridiculous thought.

I did some reading on this. It is mandatory in California for any business with twenty or more employees to provide health insurance. I couldn't find anything that said you have to provide 100% coverage.

Whomever said the insurance company would require the social security number of the recipient is correct.

John:

Lisa's HOA is going to have to decide what is more advantageous, hiring independent contractors or hiring employees. Each has benefits and drawbacks and to me a simple cost analysis can tell you which one is better. As you pointed out with contractors you are paying them profit and don't have the oversight over individual employees.

However, with employees you have that oversight but also have to worry about things such as insurance, workers comp, disability, vacation, sick time, sexual harassment issues, grievances, cost of hiring, unemployment comp, etc. I would be surprised if it was cheaper to hire the employee as opposed to contract it out, but that is something Lisa's HOA will have to look at.

To all:
From reading all these different posts, I wonder if it would be wise to encourage and if necessary, demand that the board hire an outside independent firm to do a business analysis of the Associations method of managing. This could be covered by a reserve study if an independent source had control over the people doing the reserve study. Since real property concerns would be minimal the study could be targeted towards "good Management practices."
Frankly, if any company and especially associations that have existed for 35 years without Homeowner scrutiny and refuses to open their management practices and books to professional evaluation, they are not a very good management team. In fact, associations management should be open and have strong envolvement of members. If you don't have this factor, the operation bears some of the blame and are responsible to foster mutual respect, and confidence. Does this association have the confidence of the members? If the answer is "no", you have a whole array of problems.

To John:
It is not my intent to be pretentious and assume all the "old ways" are wrong and that a new Director such as myself should attempt to change everything on a whim or as you say, "wild hare". Change doesn't come overnight, and it doesn't get done smoothly with creating tension, anger and resentment with those who have been volunteering as directors or committee members, or by threatening or intimidating staff. Be assured- I am willing and eager to work with everyone and with diplomacy.

To Robert and others:

Robert, hiring an outside firm to review our operations is EXACTLY what I aim to do. After 35 years, ANY business could benefit from a fresh pair of eyes and maybe some new ideas. I question the Health Insurance benefits because I want to know why my Association Employees pay $5 for their benefits and a nominal amount for dependents- I just found out yesterday evening that the employees do have a small premium and when I say small, I'm telling you, it's really small. Now, does this mean I should go in there and demand it change? Not necessarily. I'm going to find out if their wages are lower than other HOAs employees, and we compensate them with lower insurance premiums. I WILL, however make a statement for the record that all employees should have valid SS#s, because I don't want to be part of the problem our state is facing right now. I'm also going to ask if the staff and former board has investigated whether contracting out certain jobs would be more cost-effective. I agree that having great benefits and treating people right will attract and keep good employees, but on the other hand, if all the benefits mean that an entry level gardening or janitorial position brings their total compensation up to $20 an hour, I just don't see how I can be a responsible Director and sign off on this.

If I DON'T ask these questions, then how can I be confident that my HOA isn't just another cumbersome, money sucking, red-tape tangled mess (kind of like our Federal Government)? I didn't buy my house in an HOA so I can just write checks every month for the next 30 years and trust that every penny of my dues are being spent wisely when I SEE that there is waste and inefficiency and resistance to fixing it. I'm already paying just under $8,000 a year in property taxes, and too much in Fed and State taxes, and I'm sure they're out there spending it like drunken sailors.

OK, that was a long response, but it had to be said. As far as my by-laws and all that, where do I start and how do I start? The pages are copies of copies of old mimiographed (sp?) pages and I can hardly read some of it! What is canceled out by the Davis -Sterling Act? Which CC&Rs can be enforced over the Uniform Housing Code? I am still trying to find where to begin.

Somebody also asked about legal counsel- yes we do have legal counsel, and they have been on retainer for a loooooooong time. Probably a little over 15 years. In my opinion they aren't as assertive as they could or should be. I'd like to see a separate litigation counsel.

Believe it or not, when we went into escrow on our home, we were given close to a ream of paper of mostly illegible documents. We just got our website updated last month and they are finally putting all the documents up in digital format, something the homeowners had been asking for for years.

So...now where do I begin? Roger, your answers and questions for me have been solid and thought-provoking. I want to learn how to become an effective Director. I know there are things that are wrong, things that should change, and things that should remain the same. So far I have hit some walls- tight-lipped staff that makes it hard to get answers, an attorney who cannot be reached except through Management, opportunities for Management to influence Board decisions by "polling" them separately via telephone, the aging "regulars" that hang out at the club house and make a huge fuss any time there is a small change. The Board majority happens to also be part of the aging "regulars" clique, and they spend their Friday nights at the Adult Lounge (bar) at our club house. Many of our staff are also residents, and they also hang out at the bar. Any "outsiders" such as myself are considered a threat to what they see as a system that serves them well. Considering that less than 10% of the homeowners use the club house regularly, and that most homeowners care more about consistent and quality CC&R enforcement instead of spending millions on facility upgrades, I see an opportunity and feel obligated to represent a large group of homeowners who feel their HOA has lost sight of what really matters- property values first, amenities second.

OK- that works for me! I agree that it is not good to be the "lone ranger", although last night, I DID ask the questions, like "how many bids did you get?" Turns out they got 3 quotes from the same broker, "Who is so nice and has been our broker for 10 years." That's a big red flag to me. They should be getting bids from 3 separate brokers each year- it's not the broker's job to be nice- it's their job to show our staff what is available and at what cost, it's business, not a friendship. They claim they checked everyone's SS#s last year and they were in compliance with all the laws- good- glad they're on top of that.

I just still cannot get over their dismay when I asked them these kinds of questions. They complained that they've had to reduce their benefits throughout the years...I responded in a courteous tone and in so many words that I completely understand that good and affordable health care is hard to find these days and that EVERYONE is feeling the squeeze, and being an HOA employee does not guarantee insulation and immunity from the price hikes and service cuts the rest of the country is experiencing. I told them I don't want to see them on Kaiser, I want them to have great benefits that are comparable to other HOAs, but they need to understand that raising our HOA dues to keep their health care deductions the same as it has always been is wrong when homeowners are taking home less of their paychecks to cover their portions of health insurance premiums.

I have requested copies of their health insurance plans and bids for the past five years along with how much the employee picks up on the insurance. I want to see if it all jives with salary increases and what the rest of us are experiencing out in the civilian world.