Arizona being fined without proof

Started by MN1 • 12 replies • 731 views

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MN1 (Arizona)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Hi,
I was wondering if any lawyer or paralegal exists that can help me deal with my HOA property management company AAM here in scottsdale AZ. They basically fined me 150$ because my tenant left a couch at the trash bin (so they say) and I am yet to receive a video of the event. I also haven't received a schedule of fees related to the fine. I have filed an appeal and haven't heard anything back yet.

Is the fine currently valid since I haven't received any pictures or proof as well as no schedule of fees for fines. Can I sue them for an improper process in fining and win a financial amount for their negligence in dealing with me?

I am looking for someone who doesn't require any upfront payment.

Thanks

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Is it a fine or the cost for dealing with the mess? You are on the hook for whatever damages your tenant did. So what happens if you get the "proof"? Will your opinion change on if you deserved the fine or not?

Former HOA President

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Pass the fine on to the tenant.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MN1 on 04/15/2019 7:19 PM
Hi,
I was wondering if any lawyer or paralegal exists that can help me deal with my HOA property management company AAM here in scottsdale AZ. They basically fined me 150$ because my tenant left a couch at the trash bin (so they say) and I am yet to receive a video of the event. I also haven't received a schedule of fees related to the fine. I have filed an appeal and haven't heard anything back yet.

Is the fine currently valid since I haven't received any pictures or proof as well as no schedule of fees for fines. Can I sue them for an improper process in fining and win a financial amount for their negligence in dealing with me?

I am looking for someone who doesn't require any upfront payment.

Thanks

I'm not familiar with AZ law, but in most cases a video would not be required to prove a violation. It could be pictures, or even a witness account.

You can sue anybody for just about anything. An attorney who is familiar with local laws and case law would be able to give a more informed answer on the likelihood of prevailing. I doubt you will find a lawyer willing to take on such a minor case on contingency, but some might do a free meeting to discuss a possible case.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Request a time and date stamped photo or it's just heresy. Request a hearing before the board, demand proof. charge the renters the fine.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Sorry, MN, we, at least most here, are not attorneys or in the legal professions.

Finding schedules are different form HOA to another, but maybe yours, lets say your Rules & Regs might give you info on hearings and fines. AZ is pretty Ownr friendly so it might have statutes the could help you.

There are a few here who'll look up statutes, but not many.

RoyalP
Posts: 1,104

Posted:

..... I have filed an appeal and haven't heard anything back yet. .....

sounds like the process is at work

GeorgeR8 (Arizona)
Posts: 182

Posted:

Quote:

The violation letter should have the person's name that saw the violation. They don't need a picture but they should have taken one. Are you sure the $150 isn't what they were charged to remove the couch?

MN1 (Arizona)
Posts: 5

Posted:

I am not sure how much they were charged to remove the couch however I would like to atleast see a picture or some proof. Otherwise, on a daily basis HOAs can fine their residents for violations they did not commit. Plus I looked at the schedule of fines and trash isn't mentioned in any of them. Basically an opportunity to correct the violation wasn't given. Thanks for the inputs.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

It may not be on the list. If that is the cost it took to remove the couch, then they can pass it onto you the owner. You as the owner are on the hook for whatever your renter does. So it is best to have it in YOUR lease agreement if your tenant violates the HOA rules, then you can evict or pass that cost onto them. Most off the shelf rental agreements don't have that clause in it. As an homeowner, you need to protect your investment by monitoring your tenants.

So do you know what your tenant did with their couch? Seems if your tenant was moving out at the same time, then they could have tossed it. Did your tenant get new furniture? It doesn't take much to connect the dots on who's couch ended up in the dumpster. If your their landlord you should have seen their furniture atleast once.

Former HOA President

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MN1 on 04/17/2019 7:23 PM
I am not sure how much they were charged to remove the couch however I would like to atleast see a picture or some proof. Otherwise, on a daily basis HOAs can fine their residents for violations they did not commit. Plus I looked at the schedule of fines and trash isn't mentioned in any of them. Basically an opportunity to correct the violation wasn't given. Thanks for the inputs.

YOU signed a contract with the HOA that YOU not your renters will follow the rules and regulations and the CC&R's Perhaps your next tenants, you should put in their rental agreement that they will abide by the CC&R's
and rules and regs. I would sit them down and have them read and initial by each reg & covenant. Give them a copy of what they signed. problem solved.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

I have single family rental homes ... CCRs are attached to and required compliance by all renters.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

If you don't actually know if it's your tenant's couch, then find out from your tenant.

If you do know that it is your tenant's couch, then take responsibility for the situation (you and your tenant). Don't waste everyone's time demanding proof and threatening lawsuits. It would have cost money for your tenant to properly dispose of the couch, so them dumping it improperly is an intentional attempt to evade having to pay (and costing others' money). Fess up, pay the fine, learn from it, and move on. Do what others have recommended and put more content in your lease agreements so you can easily pass similar costs onto your future tenants. You could also ask the Board what the actual expense was for removal of the couch (assuming less than $150) and work with them to pay only that amount. It shouldn't be a money-maker for the HOA. Split the cost with your tenant, take it out of their security deposit, or come to some other agreement with your tenant. Is $150 worth the wasted time and effort to try and sue?

If however, it is not your tenant's couch or your tenant adamantly denies it being theirs and you cannot prove otherwise, then continue following the process that should be in your documents to contest the violation and application of the fine. Request a hearing with the Board. File an appeal. Continue demanding proof . . . although I doubt you'll get video. A picture of a couch next to a dumpster isn't proof that it belongs to your tenant. Do whatever needs to be done to support your case that the couch is not your responsibility.

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