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sidewalks in my HOA whos responsible???

Started by RonS15 • 21 replies • 2909 views

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RonS15 (California)
Posts: 107
Posted:
i live in a 236 unit gated community and the manager is tellin owners that there responsibility to repair the public sidewalks....our CC&Rs say our HOA is responsible for all repair in the common areas...how do i get the board to see shes not telling the truth but for some reason they will not look at the rules....how do i get them to comply ???
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Ron,
As usual it is hard to answer questions when you are the only one with the facts. Here are my questions for you.

1) Who planted and maintains the trees in the HOA?
2) Are trees planted between the Street curb and the sidewalk. This can cause lifting of the walkways.
3) Does the homeowners have trees on his private property that are causing the damage to the sidewalks?

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
You ned to do some leg work first Ron. Go to your county recorder and request the plats to your property, the plats will tell you what is your property and what is common area.

Typically sidewalks are common areas so the association as a whole is responsible for it's upkeep and maintenance. Like the other poster said, you left out some details, but look at your plats first then go from there.
CjC
Posts: 210
Posted:
Read your documents thoroughly and carefully, ours specifically say how to treat the "pedestrian path system" and now ours have to meet ADA compliance since they are adjacent to a public street.
RonS15 (California)
Posts: 107
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM19 on 03/18/2019 5:19 AM
Ron,
As usual it is hard to answer questions when you are the only one with the facts. Here are my questions for you.

1) Who planted and maintains the trees in the HOA?
2) Are trees planted between the Street curb and the sidewalk. This can cause lifting of the walkways.
3) Does the homeowners have trees on his private property that are causing the damage to the sidewalks?


the HOA plants trees an so can owners in certain areas...
its not trees its just the public sidewalk there saying is cracked
i live in a 4 plex not individual houses
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Ron,
Thanks for filling in some blanks. What the Manager is telling you is true. As a owner in the Association you are responsible for the repairs of the cracked sidewalks. The HOA is responsible of which you are a member. You have 235 partners in the HOA and if you do not have a reserve setup for common area issues it needs to be setup and part of the dues should be used to make it safe.

If you think fixing sidewalks is expensive wait till you get a slip and fall legal suit. Even if you win the your legal expense will be very expensive and the HOA (You) will have to pay for that.

Sidewalks usually do not just crack for no reasons. You would be surprised how invasive roots can be. I have dealt with this for years in my Ca. HOA. If you see a tree that the branches cross over a sidewalk you can rest assure that the roots are under the sidewalk. I have also not seen much ground settling in your State.
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posted:
You say you live in a 4 plex. What is that? Is it a group of 4 homes side by side or 4 units in one building? If it is a condo the HOA would be responsible. If it is townhouses it would depend if the sidewalks were deeded to you and what the documents say.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
RON

Chances are if a gated community, than all roads, sidewalks, etc. are the responsibility of the HOA. Now remember where an HOA gets its money. It gets it from owners like you. So in the end game, you are one of those responsible.
RonS15 (California)
Posts: 107
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamE2 on 03/18/2019 10:10 AM
You say you live in a 4 plex. What is that? Is it a group of 4 homes side by side or 4 units in one building? If it is a condo the HOA would be responsible. If it is townhouses it would depend if the sidewalks were deeded to you and what the documents say.

its 4 units in one building it is a condo...
RonS15 (California)
Posts: 107
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM19 on 03/18/2019 7:04 AM
Ron,
Thanks for filling in some blanks. What the Manager is telling you is true. As a owner in the Association you are responsible for the repairs of the cracked sidewalks. The HOA is responsible of which you are a member. You have 235 partners in the HOA and if you do not have a reserve setup for common area issues it needs to be setup and part of the dues should be used to make it safe.

If you think fixing sidewalks is expensive wait till you get a slip and fall legal suit. Even if you win the your legal expense will be very expensive and the HOA (You) will have to pay for that.

Sidewalks usually do not just crack for no reasons. You would be surprised how invasive roots can be. I have dealt with this for years in my Ca. HOA. If you see a tree that the branches cross over a sidewalk you can rest assure that the roots are under the sidewalk. I have also not seen much ground settling in your State.

see i knew my manager was a lie...see she manages in townhomes we are condos i tryed to tell her but she didnt wanna look at the cc&Rs....
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RonS15 on 03/18/2019 1:32 PM
see i knew my manager was a lie...see she manages in townhomes we are condos i tryed to tell her but she didnt wanna look at the cc&Rs....

Sometimes they're lying but it could be a case of incompetence. We have a new property manager this year and our CAM has already done several things in the name of the board, and recommended that the board do a couple of things that are clearly a violation of our documents. He presided over our Annual Meeting in January and improperly rejected - on his own - voting proxies. If we were a condominium he would have been acting in accordance with the condo statute. But we're an HOA and he was clearly ignorant of the differences between the HOA statute and the condo statute. About a dozen homeowners here were improperly denied their right to vote in the election. Nobody has made a stink about it yet, and probably won't, but it was clearly in violation of the statute and our bylaws.

It happens. Some CAMs are bad. I'm beginning to wonder if that's not more common than I once thought.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Ron,

Can you post the applicable sections of your CC&Rs that deal with this? Please redact any names of the organization before doing so.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Your real issue is with your board - they oversee the work of the property manager. Although the property manager should be well acquainted with the community documents, the BOARD, not her is ultimately responsible for managing the association.

As others have said, take a look at your rules and then go talk to your BOARD. Bring copies of the appropriate section and hand it out, if necessary and then challenge them as to why they are not taking care of areas that are clearly the association's responsibility. If they won't comply, rally your neighbors together and vote them out at the next annual meeting. You will, of course, need other people ready to step in and take over (like you, perhaps???)

While you're at it, take a good look at your budget against your documents - it's one thing to say the association is responsible for this and that, but this costs money. It may be your assessments are too low to cover everything that needs to be covered, and therefore some changes will have to be made.
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
RonS15 (California)
Posts: 107
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 03/18/2019 3:57 PM
Ron,

Can you post the applicable sections of your CC&Rs that deal with this? Please redact any names of the organization before doing so.

wow...that sounds like our manager who runs 2 HOAs and ours is in decline because of fraudulent things....im actually next week headed to the attorney general office about this
RonS15 (California)
Posts: 107
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 03/18/2019 3:57 PM
Ron,

Can you post the applicable sections of your CC&Rs that deal with this? Please redact any names of the organization before doing so.

i can if it will let me i made a whole book on who is responsible....the file i got is to big how do i shrink it to fit so i can add it
RonS15 (California)
Posts: 107
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 03/19/2019 4:13 AM
Your real issue is with your board - they oversee the work of the property manager. Although the property manager should be well acquainted with the community documents, the BOARD, not her is ultimately responsible for managing the association.

As others have said, take a look at your rules and then go talk to your BOARD. Bring copies of the appropriate section and hand it out, if necessary and then challenge them as to why they are not taking care of areas that are clearly the association's responsibility. If they won't comply, rally your neighbors together and vote them out at the next annual meeting. You will, of course, need other people ready to step in and take over (like you, perhaps???)

While you're at it, take a good look at your budget against your documents - it's one thing to say the association is responsible for this and that, but this costs money. It may be your assessments are too low to cover everything that needs to be covered, and therefore some changes will have to be made.

so i did look an it only talk about walks and concrete the cc&r says there responsible for all commoon area repair.....
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
We haven't determined where that common area is. That common area may not be the sidewalks in front of your house. It may be considered places around like parking lots or playgrounds etc... Need to DEFINE common area as it may not be certain areas. Does your HOA have enough money to pay for the repairs without raising dues or having a special assessment? An emergency on your part isn't an emergency on theirs. If there is no money for the repairs, then got to wait for that to come in.
Former HOA President
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
ron, are you saying the manager is trying to tell the individual owners in the 4plex, they individually are responsible.?? vs the hoa??

i mean, technically the 4 of you are the hoa, so you all contribute to the common funds. But the hoa should have some reserves.??

and why is the manager taking an adversarial position..?? she works for the hoa ,, you!

management companies often try to boss everyone around but then deny any responsibility when they get it wrong..

or is the question you are asking of who is responsible,, asking who between the hoa owners and the city??

in that case.. if it a gated community,, the hoa not the city would most likely be responsible.
RonS15 (California)
Posts: 107
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/19/2019 4:01 PM
We haven't determined where that common area is. That common area may not be the sidewalks in front of your house. It may be considered places around like parking lots or playgrounds etc... Need to DEFINE common area as it may not be certain areas. Does your HOA have enough money to pay for the repairs without raising dues or having a special assessment? An emergency on your part isn't an emergency on theirs. If there is no money for the repairs, then got to wait for that to come in.

interesting you say that so is there a specific word to look for...??....there is a part that says walks !!? but not side walks....in the beginning its states that the common area was the whole property the builds sit on...i think im going to double check...
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posted:
My understanding is that in a condo you buy "air space" or the area within your walls. You may have exclusive use of area like a deck but I don't see how the sidewalks wouldn't be common area. I could see it if it was a townhouse but the sidewalks have to be common in a true condo. Are the units side by side or over under?
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posted:
To answer your question I would send a letter asking the management company to fix the common sidewalk. Once they reply it is not their responsibility I would send another letter asking where in the condo documents it says it is not their responsibility. I would do it all in writing.
EdC5 (Florida)
Posts: 117
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 03/18/2019 3:51 PM
Posted By RonS15 on 03/18/2019 1:32 PM
see i knew my manager was a lie...see she manages in townhomes we are condos i tryed to tell her but she didnt wanna look at the cc&Rs....

Sometimes they're lying but it could be a case of incompetence. We have a new property manager this year and our CAM has already done several things in the name of the board, and recommended that the board do a couple of things that are clearly a violation of our documents. He presided over our Annual Meeting in January and improperly rejected - on his own - voting proxies. If we were a condominium he would have been acting in accordance with the condo statute. But we're an HOA and he was clearly ignorant of the differences between the HOA statute and the condo statute. About a dozen homeowners here were improperly denied their right to vote in the election. Nobody has made a stink about it yet, and probably won't, but it was clearly in violation of the statute and our bylaws.

It happens. Some CAMs are bad. I'm beginning to wonder if that's not more common than I once thought.

CAMs like anyone else tend to specialize. Personally, I've managed mostly coops, which makes me quite a bit of an outlier. When I did a 3-day training in Orlando last year, of the 20+ CAMs in attendance I was the only one who had managed coops, and I was the only one who worked directly for the association. Everyone else had always worked for MCs. That said, I've also managed condos (and since FL condo and coop laws are VERY similar it was hardly a stretch) and I've managed HOAs (being on the board and president for many years helped in that regard since the CAM pre-license class in FL has a 90% focus on condo law).

All that being said, what I will say is that I've seen (sadly) some unethical CAMs during my time. A board can never just put the MC on "cruise control". Review the financials and keep informed. And, if the board doesn't like what it sees, find a new MC.
Edward J Cooke, CMCA, LCAM

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