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GeneG2 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
My HOA is in California and I'm dealing with a situation where a neighbor (who is a board member) has installed an exterior fixture on his home that requires approval by the HOA Architectural Review Committee.

The Architectural Change Request form needed for this needs to be reviewed and signed by three adjacent/impacted neighbors.
I suspect that this fixture was installed without approval since I and none of the other adjacent neighbors signed the change request form.

I have asked the property management representative for a copy of this approval document and I am being stonewalled because the person who installed this fixture is a board member.

The questions I have are:
1) Do I have a right to request a copy of an Architectural Approval form for a neighbor's project/installation ?
2) If so, how do I proceed to obtain a copy of it ? Do I need to send a Demand Letter to the HOA's property management company ?

Thanks in advance.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You need to go to the HOA board. The MC is a hired contractor to the HOA. This is HOA business. Simply you and your other effected neighbors send a letter or attend a HOA meeting. Go to the source.

Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Gene, the California statutes on records inspection appear to indicate you do not have a legal right to see this Architectural Approval form. For an interpretation of the statutes, see https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Inspection-of-Plans. Other related discussion appears at

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Records-Subject-to-Inspection
https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Statutes/Civil-Code-5200#axzz2CR2ljirY
https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Records-Menu

The route I think you should take is to file a complaint stating that this member violated xyz rule.

Does your HOA have a procedure for submitting a complaint of violation of the governing documents?

The California statutes also have a lot to say about Boards being required to enforce the CC&Rs.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
If the plans were for the exterior, yes, you have a right to review.

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Inspection-of-Plans
GeneG2 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Man, I love this board !!!

Thanks so much RichardP13, you hit it out of the ballpark. This is exactly what I was looking for in the Davis Stirling act.

Yes, the additional "external fixture" is a group of 4 dozen Christmas lights that were strung up on their backyard and ran right up to the fence between our homes on the 1st week of December. The four strings of lights end up within 8 feet of my bedroom windows (small yards), and hence lit up my bedroom light it was in the middle of the Vegas strip. This was OK with me as long as they shut off the lights at some time between 10-11PM, and took the lights down a reasonable amount of time after Christmas. But after going on for some 90 days after installation (60 days after Christmas) they leave these lights on all night long, and they have no intention of ever taking them down.

I filed a complaint with the HOA with all my evidence (photos of the lights being on all throughout the night), and all the relevant CC&R sections being violated (Quiet Enjoyment & failure to obtain Architectural Approval). I had a hearing with the board, and they immediately all coalesced to defend the offending homeowner (he's on the board and hence a 'buddy'). They tried to mount a comical defense that these were "strings of security lights" and not Christmas lights. But with all the photographic evidence I had, the timing of the installation with all their other Christmas decorations, and exact copies of the CC&R rules being violated, even they soon realized this was a futile BS defense.

My concern now, is that they think that they can "win" by allowing the homeowner to keep the lights up as long as they turn them off at a decent time. The problem with this, is that these are clearly strings of Christmas lights, and who's to say that every once in a while the homeowner "forgets" to shut down the lights (they've never had them on a timer). In addition, the home is an end home backing to the common area and the strings of lights scream out "this home is in Tijuana", basically a community eyesore.

At the hearing I asked that they take these Christmas lights down, and that I did not buy the "security lights" BS. Hence, what I needed was proof that the lights were installed without the approval of the Architectural Review Committee. I asked for this in an email from the PM, but of course they're stonewalling me on this. So I needed to see the Davis Sterling Act section that I can use to send them a certified Demand Letter asking to allow me to review all the Architectural Review Committee approvals for Q4. It will be then that I will have the proof that this is an unapproved installation and thus has to be removed.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeneG2 on 02/27/2019 10:22 AM
So I needed to see the Davis Sterling Act section that I can use to send them a certified Demand Letter asking to allow me to review all the Architectural Review Committee approvals for Q4. It will be then that I will have the proof that this is an unapproved installation and thus has to be removed.


The site to which Richard and I both sent you says this:

"Correspondence. Other documents associated with the architectural application process, such as emails, letters, application forms, etc., are not subject to inspection and copying."

Also be aware that this web site is an interpretation of statute, possibly based on case law. In particular the site points out that Davis-Stirling Civil Code 5215 speaks about redacting recods on interior plans. The law firm that maintains the web site concluded that this means exterior plans should be records a HOA member can review.

You can try arguing that the approval is a part of the plan, but I myself find the argument lame.

For your demand letter, instead try this, for enforcing the covenants, first paragraph: https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Laches-Waiver-Estoppel-Statute-of-Limitations#axzz2dvdKAMVa
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
Oh, so there's quite a bit more to the story . . . 4 strings of lights = vegas strip. Those must be some serious lights!

Are there previous issues between you and this neighbor?

If it were me . . . over a beer in the driveway, I would have casually asked them about shutting off their lights at a reasonable time.

Bypassing the simple, neighborly discussion and going direct to formal complaints with photographic crime scene evidence, witness testimony, declaration excerpts, claims of impact to your quiet enjoyment, etc. may have been a bit overboard and caused the response you're getting now.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
For the record, I have created ARC application forms and they are used for any ARC that are requested for by an owner. I have had numerous applications for exterior issues, and maybe one for interior. If doing exterior work, it is asked of the owner to get the approval or signature of adjoining neighbors, but if they don't get it, it doesn't factor in the approval process, as long as there was an attempt.

As there is no expectation of privacy or the information is confidential, if an owner asked for someone's exteriors' ARC application I would let them review it. Remember, the opinion on the davis-stirling.com site are opinions of a lawyer or group. While I agree with most of them, there are some I don't and other lawyers don't either.

My former association is represented by that law firm since 2013 and their own lawyers have disagreed with what is posted by the principal partner. As you know lawyers will sometimes try and fit the narrative if what some boards are requesting and will bend their opinions to suit their client.
GeneG2 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I have lived in this home for 40 years, and have had several other neighbors in that particular home. I have never had a single issue with any neighbor in any of the homes around me. These particular neighbors have been there about 5 years, they always put out a set of small low intensity Christmas lights on the entire perimeter of their home (including the back fence between our homes). These lights go up on Dec 1, and come down on Jan1-15. They're left on 24/7, and I have no issue at all with them because of their low intensity and since they're only on top of the fence (5ft) do not directly reflect into my 2nd story bedroom's windows.

This was the first year that they deployed the four strings of lights that consist of 48 very large bright white light bulbs, so yes they're some serious lights! The strings are hung at around 9-10-ft high and resemble the shape of an arrow with the tip pointing directly at my 2nd story bedroom windows. At the tip of the arrow (aiming directly into my bedroom's windoes) there is a confluence of some 8-10 light bulbs.

This is the only home in the neighborhood that has employed this kind of Christmas lighting in their back yard. So yes, if you got a bird's eye view of the neighborhood in the middle of the night it would be mostly dark except for this particular home's backyard which would clearly stand out. Since they're now at least turning the lights off at a reasonable time of night, the ambient light in my master bedroom has been reduced so much that I once again can sleep without the need of a sleep mask.
GeneG2 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I guess I wasn't clear enough, but I did not bypass the neighborly effort to resolve the problem. When the four strings of light were initially installed they were flashing all night, the following morning (with the lights still flashing by the way). I had a friendly conversation with the neighbor and informed them that these particular lights were very distracting as they were aimed directly at my 2nd story bedroom windows, and I asked them if they would please not flash the lights and turn them off at a reasonable time of night. To their credit they never did use the lights in flashing mode, and for a few nights they did turn the entire set of lights off.

However, after around Dec 7 or so they never again turned the lights off again. I decided to grin and bear it since it was the Christmas season and I believed they would take the lights down in the same normal Jan 1-25 frame as they did with the small colored Christmas lights. Unfortunately, when the day came that they took down their small colored Christmas lights, they left the four strings of bright white lights up. I once again, decided to wait and hope they would eventually take these lights down, but by the second week of February it became clear that they intended to keep these lights on all year round unless I took some action about it.
GeneG2 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
What RichrdP states that if the Architectural Approval is for an exterior project, the HOA should have no issues with making them available to other homeowners.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
GeneG2, I would not have an issue, and the Board and management should not have an issue, but it's pretty clear your board does have issues with your complaint. Hence you are on the verge of writing a demand letter. Hence your arguments should be based in law and not what one merely thinks is ethical. Mostly I do not see that you need to have the approval document (with its lack of neighbors' approvals) in your hands to pursue the complaint.
CjC
Posts: 210
Posted:
Our docs actually have a provision that light that leaves your property can not interfere onto another's property. This includes security lights. Does you have this?
GeneG2 (California)
Posts: 6
Posted:
We do not have any provisions on our CCRs that are that clear and specific. Sometimes I think this was done on purpose to make it more "interesting" to interpret and enforce them so that we would always need to keep hiring HOA law attorneys :-)

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