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ScottP11 (Texas)
Posts: 5
Posted:
My Hoa has a parcel of land that is currently a drainage easement. The Hoa would like to repurpose this land as a park and build a hiking trail, play area, etc...

Would the hoa need approval from mortgages to modify the land to become a park?

This modification could change the value of homes, possibly negatively with the extra traffic and noise the park brings.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Can you post your HOA's CC&Rs? I think they are needed to answer your question.

Also if you want to change drainage, you may have to get permission from the City.
ScottP11 (Texas)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Our CCRs do not state anything about repurposing land to a park or anything involved except for needing to reach quorum. I know if you sell hoa property then you would need (or at least its highly advisable) to get permissions from all the home owners mortgage companies. I was wondering if this would be true for repurposing the land.

And all zoning, permits, and such would be passed, signed, permitted, etc...

Im working on finding a lawyer to help understand the finer details, but immediately curious on this question about obtaining approval from the involved homeowners mortgages.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Scott,

Make sure the city will let you create a useful amenity on the easement, first.

I'll bet your HOA documents allow the board to create a park from the unused land.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
An easement is property that is owned by one party where another party has some right to use of the property. Who owns the property and who is the easement granted to? As a guess I would assume the easement is part of the owner's lots and the association has a right to maintain the property for drainage use. You would need to determine the details of the paperwork granting the easement to see what else you might be able to use that land for.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
RoyalP
Posts: 1,104
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ScottP11 on 02/21/2019 4:48 PM
My Hoa has a parcel of land that is currently a drainage easement. The Hoa would like to repurpose this land as a park and build a hiking trail, play area, etc...

Would the hoa need approval from mortgages to modify the land to become a park?

This modification could change the value of homes, possibly negatively with the extra traffic and noise the park brings.

Does the HOA:

own a parcel of land upon which there is a drainage easement

or

merely have an easement upon another's property ?

Either way, the actual drainage may NOT be changed or interrupted or modified in any way.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it."
ScottP11 (Texas)
Posts: 5
Posted:
The Hoa owns the land in which there is a drainage easement.

A large developer purchased the 10+ acres adjacent to the hoa owned drainage easement and wants to use our drainage in exchange for placing a park on the property. Architectual documents have been created, legal documents drafted, etc. City still would need to aprove it, I believe.

Just curious if anyone here knows if the hoa would need to get approval from the homeowners mortgage conpanies in order to approve this modification to a common space. I know ir is advisable that when an hoa sells land the hoa should get approval from the mortgages.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
While not a lawyer, one HOA I was in wanted to allow owners to make some modifications to their townhouse. One neighbor (a PM for a larger condo assoc.) was against the changes and objected saying mortgage holders would have to approve any change.

Our lawyer said for improvements the mortgage holders did not have to approve the changes. He said mortgage holders have to get involved if changes devalue their interest such as selling off some land, but not for improvements.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Have you consulted with an engineer? Is it possible for the area to still be a drainage easement and have park amenities?
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Are you in a flood prone zone? Altering the drainage easement might put you at risk for being in a flood zone; and your neighbors won't be happy when they have to purchase flood insurance.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Our state you are not required to purchase flood insurance unless you are in a designated flood area. Which can be quite complicated situation. We have a neighborhood whom was designated as a flood zone. However, they have not flooded but they must have the insurance. They are currently fighting the city and the federal agency to get the area off the flood zone list. I also think Corps of Engineers had to be involved. It's a real government tie up situation.

So wanted to let you know that a simple repurposing can be a real government fight. Right now we are going through a flood. We have walk ways/parks the city has set up along their drainage system. I think they did something along the lines of what you want to do. There is a dog park, playground, and a walking trail. It is currently under 8 feet of raging water or more. Once the water drains off, it will have produced damage. Can your HOA afford to keep repairs of this area after it floods?

Former HOA President
RoyalP
Posts: 1,104
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/23/2019 5:59 AM
Our state you are not required to purchase flood insurance unless you are in a designated flood area. Which can be quite complicated situation. We have a neighborhood whom was designated as a flood zone. However, they have not flooded but they must have the insurance. They are currently fighting the city and the federal agency to get the area off the flood zone list. I also think Corps of Engineers had to be involved. It's a real government tie up situation.

So wanted to let you know that a simple repurposing can be a real government fight. Right now we are going through a flood. We have walk ways/parks the city has set up along their drainage system. I think they did something along the lines of what you want to do. There is a dog park, playground, and a walking trail. It is currently under 8 feet of raging water or more. Once the water drains off, it will have produced damage. Can your HOA afford to keep repairs of this area after it floods?

No state requires anyone to purchase flood insurance. PERIOD

A potential mortgagor (ie. a bank) may require said insurance as a condition of lending (if property is located in a FEMA designated flood zone).
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ScottP11 on 02/22/2019 9:35 AM
The Hoa owns the land in which there is a drainage easement.

If the HOA owns the land, who is the easement granted to?

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 02/23/2019 8:04 AM
If the HOA owns the land, who is the easement granted to?

That's a good question. Our Plat contains the following language,

"DRAINAGE AND STORMWATER EASEMENTS: ALL LANDS AS SHOWN ON THIS PLAT ARE HEREBY DEDICATED IN PERPETUITY TO THE ABC123 HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION FOR THE CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE OF DRAINAGE FACILITIES INCLUDED BUT NOT LIMITED TO SURFACE WATER AND STORM WATER SYSTEMS EXCEPT THE LANDS SHOWN ON THE PLAT AS RESERVED FOR OTHER EASEMENTS OR PURPOSES. THESE DRAINAGE FACILITIES SHALL BE THE PERPETUAL MAINTENANCE OBLIGATION OF THE ABC123 HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION."

The HOA owns all the land except for the residence lots so the easement to itself, apparently. Interestin.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 02/23/2019 1:49 PM
Posted By DouglasK1 on 02/23/2019 8:04 AM
If the HOA owns the land, who is the easement granted to?

That's a good question. Our Plat contains the following language,

"DRAINAGE AND STORMWATER EASEMENTS: ALL LANDS AS SHOWN ON THIS PLAT ARE HEREBY DEDICATED IN PERPETUITY TO THE ABC123 HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION FOR THE CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE OF DRAINAGE FACILITIES INCLUDED BUT NOT LIMITED TO SURFACE WATER AND STORM WATER SYSTEMS EXCEPT THE LANDS SHOWN ON THE PLAT AS RESERVED FOR OTHER EASEMENTS OR PURPOSES. THESE DRAINAGE FACILITIES SHALL BE THE PERPETUAL MAINTENANCE OBLIGATION OF THE ABC123 HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION."

The HOA owns all the land except for the residence lots so the easement to itself, apparently. Interestin.

Some of our common property has a conservation easement granted to the water management district, I think making unauthorized changes to that could have bad repercussions.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
RoyalP
Posts: 1,104
Posted:
VERY bad, and, VERY expensive
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 02/24/2019 2:52 PM
Some of our common property has a conservation easement granted to the water management district, I think making unauthorized changes to that could have bad repercussions.

I've seen many Plats that designate conservation easements for wetlands and woodlands and vegetation buffer zones and the like. I think you're very right that where easements are granted to a Florida Water Management District, one could get into serious hot water if those are ignored.

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