💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

AlanC4 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Our HOA recently held an election and in the period preceding it there were a number of people out soliciting proxies. In some cases, individuals were asked to sign a BLANK proxy. That is, the portion of the form which indicate who would vote on their behalf had no entry. The CCRs and bylaws don't forbid this practice, but we are after all a corporation and I'm wondering if in fact that tactic is legal in Texas. Your thoughts?

Also, are members of the HOA entitled to see how many votes were cast by who so that the distribution of proxies is known?

NOTE: I was not a candidate and have no intention of challenging anything. This is me purely being curious.
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
Was this a General Proxy or a Designated Proxy?
AlanC4 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
The proxy is to vote at the Annual Meeting.

Note: This is IMPORTANT and I'm sorry to say that I forgot to add it:

The form lists the names of the current Board members so that the person may designate which of them gets proxy authority. There is also language which says if nobody is designated, then the votes will revert to the Board Secretary. (So, obviously, the Board has pre-loaded the form to make it easiest to designate a Board member as the proxy holder.)
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
Unless your bylaws or other documents outline directions:

Proxies can be given to any other member or Secretary to cast a vote the way the designee wishes OR it can come with directions to the proxie designee.

The Election official (counter) gives the results of the election to the president, who then announces the results. Actual results are usually not related, only the winners.
AlanC4 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
What do you folks think about revealing who have how many proxy votes to cast?

Should a person be able to ask how many proxies were cast and by who?
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
Absolutely not. That would violate the voter’s right to privacy.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AlanC4 on 02/20/2019 3:38 PM
The proxy is to vote at the Annual Meeting.

Note: This is IMPORTANT and I'm sorry to say that I forgot to add it:

The form lists the names of the current Board members so that the person may designate which of them gets proxy authority. There is also language which says if nobody is designated, then the votes will revert to the Board Secretary. (So, obviously, the Board has pre-loaded the form to make it easiest to designate a Board member as the proxy holder.)

This is very typical.
AlanC4 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
"Absolutely not. That would violate the voter’s right to privacy. "

I'm not sure how -- could you elaborate a bit? Nothing would be given away in terms of *how* a person voted, only how *many* votes the person cast. It would only be a list like:

Jim Smith - cast 42 votes
Dave Bruce - cast 41 votes
Anne Jackson - cast 81 votes

(Also, we don't really have secret ballots. On each ballot, a person has to print their name, address, and give a signature. The two people who count ballots and the HOA manager know who voted for who.)

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SueW6 on 02/21/2019 5:07 AM
Absolutely not. That would violate the voter’s right to privacy.

What right of privacy is one to expect? The individual signed over their rights to a third party who can see exactly who they voted for on a sheet of paper not in an envelope marked "secret ballot.
AlanC4 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
So, if I understand you correctly, it would be a violation of Anne Jackson's privacy if the HOA membership know she had 81 proxy votes?

Note: I'm not now or have ever been an HOA board member or officer so I'll confess to being generally ignorant of how all this works. This curiosity was inspired by a happenstance incident where I was standing behind someone who said (paraphrasing) "Sorry, but I'm going to be a while -- I have to sign in for 64 proxies." I don't know how exactly many votes were cast - I hope our HOA manager will answer my question about that soon - but I suspect that's somewhere around 20-25% of all votes cast. That's all fine and allowable under our bylaws, but I think statistics like that might wake up a number of voters and get them involved. It is sad to say, but it seems like we no longer have elections -- we have proxy competitions.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
There shouldn’t be such a thing as anonymous proxy. The homeowner should specifically state who will vote on his/her behalf, whether that’s a board officer (usually the president in my community) or someone else. Where I live, you can also dictate how the proxy is to vote or leave that part blank and the proxy can vote for whoever. If you show up at the meeting after all, the proxy is cancelled and you can cast your own vote.

Personally I wouldn’t sign a blank proxy because I wouldn’t have any idea what the person collecting them would do with them, so if your neighbors are signing this without thinking the thing through, they’re not very bright. These are usually the same people who will later howl about “rouge boards” or property managers run amok.

That might also include you. You have a valid question, especially since you say you’re new to the process, so why ask about this and then say you have no intention of challenging anything? That won’t get your question answered – we can tell you what we think (although I think this signing a blank proxy is stupid), but we don’t live in your community, so your question should really be directed at the BOARD, not the property manager (he or she runs the day to day operations at the board’s direction, remember?)

About the count – you can probably find out the total number of votes cast and a breakdown as to how many got what. You’d have to look at the proxies themselves to see who got what, but as some have said, that appears to be a privacy issue, so you might not be entitled to that information. In our community, our sign in sheets indicate if a proxy was turned in or the owner signs in if he/she attends, so you might be able to get a copy of that and then visit all those people who turned in proxies and ask them how they voted.

I think you should go to the meeting and ask your question and see how the board responds. You never know – other people might ponder this a bit and start asking their own questions. If the board’s responses aren’t up to snuff, it may be time to replace them with other people who will take steps to ensure the election is fair.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AlanC4 on 02/20/2019 6:56 PM
What do you folks think about revealing who have how many proxy votes to cast?

Should a person be able to ask how many proxies were cast and by who?

Proxies are not "cast". Ballots are cast. In Florida you'd absolutely be entitled to see the ballots and proxies, although the ballots themselves wouldn't have any markings on them to indicate who cast the ballot.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SueW6 on 02/21/2019 5:07 AM
Absolutely not. That would violate the voter’s right to privacy.

What right to privacy is that? Is that a thing in Texas law as far as association voting is concerned? I'm curious because there is no such right in Florida homeowners associations, for example, unless it's expressly in one's bylaws.
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
No way should an MC or Election officer turn over the ballots to the general membership to be handled, categorized and/or sorted - they must be kept safely for a certain amount of time, in case of a recount.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Sorry, in California, any member can review the ballots and the signing envelopes. They can tally who voted and can verify that the votes from the ballots were properly counted.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
In my previous HOAs in Virginia, voting for directors was always secret ballot - double enveloped ballots. Once logged in by two people who confirmed the envelope was from a member in good standing, the outside envelope was opened and the interior envelope was removed and stacked on top of the other interior envelopes, with the outside envelope being discarded. The interior envelopes were then opened and the ballots removed and tallied. There were no “from” names or address markings on the interior envelopes or the ballots.
AlanC4 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
"You have a valid question, especially since you say you’re new to the process, so why ask about this and then say you have no intention of challenging anything?"

I'm just curious -- and the whole process seems...weird.

When you enter the Annual Meeting, there's a log book listing all addressees in the HOA. Members sign in for themselves and for each address they're casting votes for. There are proxy forms, but I don't know if they're ever checked against the entries in the logbook to see if they correspond. (I hope so!)

Our ballots have the names of the candidates, but not in any particular order. Each person casts one ballot. If you have proxies for 15 people, you write "15" in the upper part of the ballot. At the bottom, you print your name, address, and then sign. All the people counting ballots will see who has how many proxies and how each individual voted.

Maybe the best way to address this is to suggest we have a webpage "How Our Elections Work" and offer to create the copy for it with the help of our Board and mgmt company. That'll not only answer my questions (and perhaps leave me feeling less "weird" about the process) but also help others who might wonder.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here