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Board Member Steering election votes

Started by RoryG ā€¢ 34 replies ā€¢ 757 views

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RoryG (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Our election is coming up soon for new Board members and today we heard that a board member was telling residents who they should NOT vote for.
There are 4 people running for 2 openings. Can a Board member do this. Any recourse? It feels like the Board is trying to influence the outcome of the election. We are an HOA in CA.
RoryG (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
By the way the Board member has singled out a gay person that he doesnā€™t want on the board.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
When's the last time you listened to who you want to vote for? Someone can say their OPINION of a person doesn't mean it's shared by anyone else. Most people will just nod their head and think "whatever".

It is called campaigning for a reason. So the other candidates can also express their opinion on why they should get the votes. It's mud slinging or positive direction time.

Just because someone is gay doesn't mean someone hates them just because they are gay. That is an excuse for someone to identify something they want to assign a reason for. Who knows? He could not like the guy because he made terrible Potato Salad at the last Pot Luck. Whom he may have attended with his boyfriend. Does that mean he doesn't like him because he brought his boyfriend or because too much mayo in the potato salad?
Former HOA President
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
Normally, it would be called ā€œcampaigningā€ but if it is really based on sexual orientation, race, etc. etc. - thereā€™s a possible discrimination lawsuit in the making.

The board is open to a civil rights violation if it appears in any way that this board is involved or that this person speaks for the board.

Best to tell that person to shut up.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Board members are allowed to campaign for others. However, board members also should avoid the appearance of impropriety, and in this situation, it *appears* that an issue could be made of the candidate's sexual orientation.

If I were in the board member's position, and I truly believed that the candidate was not qualified, I would first make very sure that I stuck strictly to the person's lack of qualifications for the job. I would make sure that I had a precisely scripted "elevator speech" about my position, and I would not discuss the topic one-on-one with any homeowner (no unscripted communications and always have witnesses). This won't necessarily stop a lawsuit, but it would greatly lessen the chances that the plaintiff could prove his charges. Also, the board member should remember D&O insurance: it won't cover him if he is guilty of wrongdoing.

RoryG (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
The Board member wasn't campaigning FOR anyone. He told the neighbor to be sure and vote but do NOT vote for this particular candidate. He is deliberately asking people who not to vote for and no stated reason. This person who is gay and running for the Board also heads up our new gay social club. The current Board member may also have some homophobia which has been a problem.
RoryG (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
The gay candidate has been on a board before and is as qualified as the other three candidates. Is it still considered campaigning if a Board member says "just be sure to not vote for this person"?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
A BOD member has the right to campaign for/against someone as does any other owner. What a BOD Member has to do is be sure he makes it clear he is only speaking for himself, not the BOD.
RoryG (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
The person campaigning is already a Board member and an attorney. If feels like he is steering votes against this person for no stated reasons.
RoryG (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
The person campaigning is already a Board member and an attorney. If feels like he is steering votes against this person for no stated reasons.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RoryG on 02/17/2019 8:40 AM
The person campaigning is already a Board member and an attorney. If feels like he is steering votes against this person for no stated reasons.

I'm not surprised that he's cautious about what he says. That doesn't mean he has no reason for his position. Board members find out a lot about their neighbors, but that doesn't mean they're free to announce their findings to the world. That would be an abuse of their position.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 02/17/2019 8:25 AM
A BOD member has the right to campaign for/against someone as does any other owner. What a BOD Member has to do is be sure he makes it clear he is only speaking for himself, not the BOD.


I agree with what JohnC46 wrote above.

Rory, yes, it is still campaigning if a board member says not to vote for someone. Though as other has noted, he should make it clear he is not speaking for the board.

California has some good law on how campaigns are conducted. If this guy or anyone uses HOA resources to campaign, then all other candidates must have the same access. See https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Statutes/Civil-Code-5105#axzz2CR2ljirY

Rory, consider a mass mailing countering this board member's efforts. Members are entitled to the contact information of all members, including I believe email addresses. Call out this board member and question why he has told a neighbor not to vote for so-and-so, who has led the Gay Social Club. Do not accuse. Be circumspect.

I too would be concerned that this guy is anti-gay. However, I do not see that Rory has any hard proof. HUD is overworked and lacks competent staff to start with, and it better be clear that Thee Reason this one board director is campaigning against this gentleman is solely because he is gay. Else in my experience, there is no legal case.
RoryG (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
It's hard to know if he is speaking for himself or the Board. But it sounds like he should be stating that he is only speaking for himself. The old guard is trying to hold power and doesn't seem to like that we have more gay residents and an openly gay board candidate.
RoryG (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
We just got more information. The Board member said THOSE PEOPLE want to change everything. I believe he was referring to the gay people.
RoryG (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
We just got more information. The Board member said THOSE PEOPLE want to change everything. I believe he was referring to the gay people.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Here is the deal. I think the OP is ASSIGNING the reason for that person being gay. Otherwise why even mention it? It sounds like the OP WANTS to make the board member homophobic. It sounds like the actual candidate is a pretty popular and decent person. So those qualities will speak for themselves. One doesn't establish a gay social club openly and not be someone who can stand up for themselves.

Honestly, this gets in my crawl when someone ASSIGNS ASSUMPTIONS onto others. When reality it is most likely their OWN ASSUMPTIONS. Rule of thumb: What OTHERS think of you is NOT what you think of you. It's usually what you think of yourself you put onto others... So get off the "He's gay/homophobic" thing. VOTE for what who you want. Everyone else will too.
Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RoryG on 02/17/2019 9:54 AM
We just got more information. The Board member said THOSE PEOPLE want to change everything. I believe he was referring to the gay people.


Maybe. But I think another reasonable interpretation is that "those people" refers to a group of members who want to change how the HOA is run. In other words, when it comes to the law, so far I think you have no legal proof of anything.

Rory, I think your time would be better spent preparing mailings to the membership. You can allude to your concerns about bigotry in these mailings.

Also if any board member during a board meeting campaigns in any way, your group should object and immediately ask for equal time at the meeting. Make sure the Minutes reflect same.
RoryG (California)
Posts: 10
Posted:
The Board member said to the residents the reasons not to vote for
This person among other issues not
Based on qualifications is THOSE PEOPLE WANT TO CHANGE EVERYTHING.
The gay people in our complex are frequently referred to as those people.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Again "those people" who want to change things who happen to be gay...
Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Lots of suspicion, no proof.

So... the person who wants to be elected needs to run a more effective campaign than the others. That's not a bad thing.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Meh ...

Campaigning is campaigning - unless the Board member says he is speaking for the Board, he can be an incredibly obnoxious jerk - he could probably even say things construed to be ā€œanti homosexual.ā€ But, again, NOT speaking for the Board.

If folks donā€™t like his politics, or his biases, they can vote him out next time - or call a special meeting to remove him from the Board.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
With those who wrote "those people want to change everything" not necessarily meaning they want more gay per or something. It just as easily could mean they wan to dampen the power of the Old Guard."

Forget it, Rory, UNLESS he's using HOA resources or seems to be speaking on behalf of the board. Send out your own mailers campaigning for him and another too if you like. Encourage the gay person to campaign. Encourage the Board to hold a "Candidates Night," where all four can present their approaches to governing your HOA.

It helps me think if I know a few details: How many residences in your HOA? Condo or detached homes? Do you happen to know what % are renters? How many on the Board?
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 02/17/2019 10:08 AM
Maybe. But I think another reasonable interpretation is that "those people" refers to a group of members who want to change how the HOA is run. In other words, when it comes to the law, so far I think you have no legal proof of anything.

We have an Old Guard contingent in my HOA that frequently uses the term "THOSE PEOPLE". There are no LGBT owners here that I'm aware of, they're referring to the new majority of homeowners who are here less than 5 years who aren't satisfied with the way the HOA is run. The phrase, "those people", can mean many different things.
JoanQ (California)
Posts: 36
Posted:
Hi Kerry, - I live in this community with Rory - we are a co-op and have 100 units of various sizes. we only allow 20% of units to be rented with a maximum of 4 months. 5 people on the Board. The one that made the comment is an attorney. Great idea for a candidates night. yes we have the old guard that are very nervous about the new turks.
JoanQ (California)
Posts: 36
Posted:
at this point we do not know who this board member was referring to be it a LGBT person or the new homeowners that have not been here that long (less than 5 years). We have an idea it was because the candidate is gay, since he has lived in the complex 7-8 years.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoanQ on 02/17/2019 4:30 PM
at this point we do not know who this board member was referring to be it a LGBT person or the new homeowners that have not been here that long (less than 5 years). We have an idea it was because the candidate is gay, since he has lived in the complex 7-8 years.

You automatically become gay if you live in a community 7-8 years. Glad I got out when I did.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I wouldnā€™t vote for or against anyone simply because someone told me to. If your ballots are secret, no one will know how anyone else voted anyway. And if you did vote for the gay homeowner or not, what exactly is this person going to do to you because you made up your own mind- thatā€™s what grown folks are supposed to do!
Surely your neighbors are mature enough to act accordingly (then again, look at the foolishness going on these days from Congress on down!).

If not, Iā€™m with everyone else ā€“ campaigning can be a tacky business and people say crazy things all the time. Unless this person claims heā€™s speaking for the board or using association resources to shut down this candidate, ignore him. Karma has an interesting way of turning on people who like to stir up trouble for no reason ā€“ this guy might just find HEā€™S been booted off the board because lots of folks donā€™t like bigots and bullies.

You can also offer the help the other candidate's campaign, stressing his credentials and that this election is about association issues and what the candidate would like to do to make the community the best it can be it the best it can be.

One more thing - if you are on the board and get elected or re-elected, it might be a good idea to have an executive session with this board member (if he gets re-elected) and have a serious conversation about proper conduct as a Board member - it's ok to disagree with someone's stance on an issue, but getting personal only makes you look petty. Respect must be given at all times.
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 02/18/2019 9:40 AM
it's ok to disagree with someone's stance on an issue, but getting personal only makes you look petty. Respect must be given at all times.

That used to be OK, but unfortunately, in today's political climate, people feel emboldened to do the opposite.
JoanQ (California)
Posts: 36
Posted:
RichardP sorry I was not clear - the candidate has lived in the complex 7-8 years. So I don't think the Board member was referencing new owners.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 02/18/2019 10:03 AM
Posted By SheliaH on 02/18/2019 9:40 AM
it's ok to disagree with someone's stance on an issue, but getting personal only makes you look petty. Respect must be given at all times.


That used to be OK, but unfortunately, in today's political climate, people feel emboldened to do the opposite.

True - and then people wonder why nothing gets done! It doesn't matter whether you're talking about a school board, neighborhood block club, a HOA or Congress - people are people no matter where you go or what's going on.
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 02/18/2019 9:40 AM
it's ok to disagree with someone's stance on an issue, but getting personal only makes you look petty. Respect must be given at all times.


Correct. I do not agree with Richard. I think many see House Speaker Pelosi as a five-star general, compared to the President, because Pelosi does a superior job of conducting herself as Shelia proposes.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
It's very possible, JoanQ, that even though the gay person has lived the quite a while, they still might have joined up with newer owners who want change.

In what possible way could a gay person on the Board "change everything," and what would that "change" be??

In CA, btw, secret ballots, which may be returned by US mail, are required for all elections.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 02/18/2019 12:05 PM
Posted By SheliaH on 02/18/2019 9:40 AM
it's ok to disagree with someone's stance on an issue, but getting personal only makes you look petty. Respect must be given at all times.


Correct. I do not agree with Richard. I think many see House Speaker Pelosi as a five-star general, compared to the President, because Pelosi does a superior job of conducting herself as Shelia proposes.

Please don't think I agree with a clown that was elected president.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 02/18/2019 12:14 PM
Please don't think I agree with a clown that was elected president.


Noted.

Some of the people who post here come from HOAs the size of small towns. E.g. LindaM30's HOA has almost 2000 homes and I imagine over 4000 residents. I think HOA boards often have a greater impact on people's lives than city, state and federal governments. I figure hoatalk[dot]com is in no small part about teaching constructive leadership.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 02/18/2019 12:30 PM
Posted By RichardP13 on 02/18/2019 12:14 PM
Please don't think I agree with a clown that was elected president.


Noted.

Some of the people who post here come from HOAs the size of small towns. E.g. LindaM30's HOA has almost 2000 homes and I imagine over 4000 residents. I think HOA boards often have a greater impact on people's lives than city, state and federal governments. I figure hoatalk[dot]com is in no small part about teaching constructive leadership.

And I didn't mean of the HOA!

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