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RobertV14 (California)
Posts: 2
Posted:
The subject asks my question: Is a board member who is on a "payment plan" considered to be in "good standing?" I have found no case law but many corporations that allow for this.

Alfred Vail Mutual Association
NEW JERSEY'S LONGEST RUNNING CO-OP

"If Member is not in good standing due to non-payment, Members may change the status to good standing by paying the arrears in-full or by making a payment plan approved by Board, at Board’s discretion."

CALSouth
Official Youth and Adult State Soccer Associaiton for Southern California

"Cal South Good Standing Policy

A. Good Standing An Affiliate Member of Cal South shall be deemed to be in Good Standing as a Member if:

Financial An Affiliate Member’s financial liability to Cal South cannot exceed $1,000 and reach 60 days aged, or have any balance reach 90 days aged. The only valid exception to these criteria is a written and signed payment plan provided and agreed to by the respective District Commissioner and approved by the Cal South Board of Directors."

Michigan Education Association

"MEA will consider a member to be in good standing if he or she is making payments for the current year and is complying with a payment plan for dues owed from prior years."
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Realistically, and you probably won't like the answer, it will depend on what job the individual is doing and how many others are willing to step up to do the job (combined with if the other board members find no objection with those who are stepping up).

That said, I have personally read very few HOA/COA governing documents that have "good standing" as a qualifier of someone serving on the board.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I would rather have someone on a payment plan than someone NOT paying at all. It shows someone is making an effort to pay. So why would you have an issue with someone on a payment plan? Everyone has hit hard times. Especially those who just went through the government shutdown. It seems having a payment plan set up is the most considerable thing to do for someone in a HOA.

Is this just a reason not to like this board member or have something to wag the tongue about? Otherwise, a person who is TRYING to fulfill their debt is a good person to me.

Former HOA President
ND (PA)
Posts: 792
Posted:
I would advocate that anyone on a Board-approved payment plan, and in full compliance with the terms of that plan is a member in good standing. Essentially by virtue of making and agreeing to the payment plan, the HOA is accepting payment according to that plan in lieu of any other payment option/requirement.

The instant the individual fails to comply with their precise responsibilities as they relate to the payment plan, they are no longer in good standing.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Unless your Bylaws are more specific than ā€œin good standing,ā€ I think the member on an agreed to payment plan is in good standing.

I believe Bylaws should have this phrase, or something like it.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Our documents define "good standing" as someone who's current with all fees, so this person wouldn't be able to serve.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Sheila,

I like that more complete and unarguable definition!
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 02/14/2019 6:30 AM
Our documents define "good standing" as someone who's current with all fees, so this person wouldn't be able to serve.

To play Devil's Advocate. One could argue that if a payment plan has been reached with the BOD and one is current with the plan, then they are current with all fees.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
I dunno, John ...

"Current with all fees ..." to me means everything is paid, not agreed-to-be-paid at some particular future time.
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Robert,
I have a few issues that I want to bring up. Typically no one gets on a payment plan for being behind by 1 or 2 months. It usually takes at least 3 before it goes to collections. So if that happened he or she must have violated the Good Standing or Current rule in your Bylaws. That is when action should have been taken.

I have had the Good Standing debate many times over the years in Ca. seems like different PM and also attorneys treat it differently. As was mentioned if they fell behind once they usually don't do well with payment plans either. It amazes me how Board Members are not responsible enough to pay their dues. I wish HOA would do Credit Checks for potential candidates. If they aren't good at paying their own bills why should we elect them to manage the HOA's?

Melissa,

I think it is lame for you to blame the Government Shutdown for this issue. That was last month and it is over now. Also most of those people have already been paid back pay. Your comment about everyone has hit hard times is ridicules. The economy is better than it has ever been and unemployment it at all time low.
RobertV14 (California)
Posts: 2
Posted:
I understand there are differing opinions. Does anyone know the case law that addresses this issue?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
The last link below has two case law citations for California that may be relevant. The law firm that runs the Davis-Stirling.com site opines as follows:

"To require sitting directors or nominees to the Board to be in 'Good Standing,' both the definition of 'Good Standing' and the qualification must be included in the association's governing documents. The definition can be found in the CC&Rs, Bylaws, General Rules, and/or Election Rules. The qualification that a director or nominee for the board be in "Good Standing" should be in either the Bylaws, or the Election Rules, or both."

See
https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Good-Standing-for-Directors
https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Good-Standing-Defined
https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Director-Qualification

Robert:
Do your governing documents define "good standing"? If so, what is the definition?
Do your governing documents have any requirements for being a director? If so, what are they?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
That would depend on the state – if you say you’ve heard different opinions on good standing from various attorneys and property managers, what do you think you’ll get when you start comparing lawsuits from several states all heard by different judges?!

You and Melissa both have valid points regarding payment plans. Board members aren't perfect, but the best leaders set a good example - at least try to behave like the type of homeowner you want to live in your community. People who pay assessments in full and on time, keep their homes and yards in order and try to get along with the neighbors (most of the time) would be a good foundation.

I can only think of one board member during my 10 year tenure who went delinquent, but she left the board shortly before things went truly haywire (major illness followed by job loss).That was why, as former Board treasurer, I was always willing to consider a payment plan to at least keep some money coming in, get some money in. I also expected people to be straight with the board as to why they couldn’t pay. I realize it’s scary and embarrassing to say you need help, but a good HOA board recognizes that life happens to everyone at a time when you least expect it. It’s when people blew off the gentle reminders, followed by the not so nice letters and the pay or else, letters, we were less inclined to consider them, especially after the account went to the attorney.

As far as credit checks are concerned for potential board members, I’d extend that to potential homeowners because that’s where HOA board members come from. I know there are several reasons that may never happen, but I still think banks and mortgage should do a better job in considering all the costs of home ownership when reviewing mortgage applications, including HOA assessments.

Better yet, I’d like them included with the mortgage payment because I’ve seen far too many cases where someone goes into foreclosure and everyone else, except the HOA ends up walking away. Maybe if all the costs were considered, banks wouldn’t put homeowners in mortgages even Ray Charles could see they couldn’t afford. It might even encourage people to do some more research before they buy so they know what they’re getting into.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 02/14/2019 11:39 AM
Better yet, I’d like them included with the mortgage payment because I’ve seen far too many cases where someone goes into foreclosure and everyone else, except the HOA ends up walking away. Maybe if all the costs were considered, banks wouldn’t put homeowners in mortgages even Ray Charles could see they couldn’t afford. It might even encourage people to do some more research before they buy so they know what they’re getting into.

While I was at Countrywide in 2004, including HOA dues as part of impounds was discussed. Impounds were only required if the loan to value was greater than 80%. While we had $2.9T in servicing rights, only 18% of the loans had impounds and not everyone with a mortgage lived in a HOA. Two things killed the discussion, frequency of payments (monthly) and who the send the payments to. What happens when a HOA changes management companies. To make it work, you would need buy-in from all other servicers which wasn't going to happen. But, if it could, think of the interest that could be made.

In addition, if anyone were to read the Condo rider attached to their deed of trust, there is a section under Remedies which states that if Borrower does not pay condominium dues and assessments when due, then the Lender pay them and any amounts disbursed shall become additional debt of the borrower secured by the Security Instrument. Anyone ever use that clause?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
It's a great clause to have - if (1) homeowners are aware of it and (2) banks abide by it. Activating that clause was one reason we eventually changed association attorneys because the previous law firm didn't seem to be aware of it (they were nice people, but their approach to collections wasn't as aggressive as we felt it should be, considering what we were paying out in legal fees!).

However, we found that it was very difficult to find out who the hell had the mortgage because it had been sold and resold and re-re sold. Then you had to figure out which department to send the information to, which led to another round of "this isn't my department, you need to go to...." Just as we zeroed in on who was responsible, the bank would then decide to do its own foreclosure, but would file the papers and sit and sit (and not pay a dime in assessments), until they managed to get someone to buy it for whatever they could sell it for, which usually wasn't enough to pay off our lien and so the association would have to eat the debt.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 02/14/2019 1:47 PM
It's a great clause to have - if (1) homeowners are aware of it and (2) banks abide by it. Activating that clause was one reason we eventually changed association attorneys because the previous law firm didn't seem to be aware of it (they were nice people, but their approach to collections wasn't as aggressive as we felt it should be, considering what we were paying out in legal fees!).

However, we found that it was very difficult to find out who the hell had the mortgage because it had been sold and resold and re-re sold. Then you had to figure out which department to send the information to, which led to another round of "this isn't my department, you need to go to...." Just as we zeroed in on who was responsible, the bank would then decide to do its own foreclosure, but would file the papers and sit and sit (and not pay a dime in assessments), until they managed to get someone to buy it for whatever they could sell it for, which usually wasn't enough to pay off our lien and so the association would have to eat the debt.


Homeowners signed the document and banks do abide by it. Yes it is true that all loans get sold to another servicing company at one time or another, but someone who has access to a title search can find the new company, loan number and MIN (Mortgage Identification Number).

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