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WendyL1 (Michigan)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Living in a condo complex of 79 units in Michigan. Last winter a co-owner says he fell, he hit his head which aggreviate a old injury causing a couple strokes the following week. He is unable to work. He sold his unit, then filled a lawsuit . Our insurance attorney says its possible for it to go over our 1 million dollar limit, which we would then have to access to the 79 other units.

Anybody else in the snow states having issues with owners faling on ice/snow and suing. This is the second lawsuit for slip & fall (we have not had one the first 15 years of the condos) the first was dismssed which his attorney appealed and now is going to higher courts.

My concern if he wins a large amount $ what pr0tects us and all hoa's in the future from the next guy looking for a payout. He lived here, so basically suing his self? Open and obvious laws passed last year no longer apply. Our insurance goes up. Very interested in what other HOAs are doing is anybody else experience paid out for lawsuits.
We are finding its already effecting selling the units becouse the mortgage companies ask about law suits and we have 2 mortgages that are not going thru right now becouse of this.
JimC23 (Nevada)
Posts: 13
Posted:
What are other HOAs doing? They are raising their limits, if they haven't already, to a higher limit. My guess is that going from $1MM to $5MM, spread amongst 79 homeowners, would be a reasonable cost.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
They are no longer a member of the HOA. So not sure how much rights they have in suing. Although it happened while they were a member. This may fall under their homeowner's insurance. This is something to talk to your insurance company about as it is an insurance claim. Which they will be handling.

My doubts are with them winning. There are a few variables in play here. If they are just threatening to sue, then I would raise a few red flags on this issue. Plus them no longer being a member, means they won't be suing themselves and their neighbors. They are suing the HOA as a whole.

Did this happen on common area? Reason asking is this could be covered under their homeowner's insurance if not on common area. Is the HOA responsible for snow removal and where? Was it reasonable conditions that treatment could be applied? Can't expect someone to come out in a blizzard.

So before you all go hit the panic button on a threat of lawsuit, check out your worse case scenerios. Which starts with your insurance company.

Former HOA President
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Anyone can should an HOA, it's a business after all. Not living there or being a member has no bearing. These types of things happen and is the very reason why HOA's are required by law to help protect their homeowners from financial disaster.
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Wendy,
First your coverage needs to change asap. 1 million is simply not enough insurance for a SFH much less an HOA. You need to have your security cameras set to cover every open area of your community. People fake slip and falls every day and without video proof your community is always at risk. Cameras cost next to nothing and lawsuits will bankrupt a community every time. When you close your eyes tonight the cameras will be wide open and will give video evidence of what actually happened. It will save your HOA ten times what they costs.

Pay camera installers now or Lawyers later.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Not sure what this guys ulterior motive is. On the surface it sounds like he sold expecting a huge payout forcing unit owners to sell to pay out his damages.

A Nevada SFH HOA got sued for millions over playground equipment, That judgment was due to proven negligence by the BOD. Snow related slip n fall injuries is a whole different matter and can go either way. My suggestion is to call your personal insurance agent and add loss assessment coverage addendum to your owners policy.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Even though HOA's are incorporated that does NOT make them a business. Different animal.

The HOA would need to have a history of complaint and avoidance of correcting the issue that made the person fall. Did someone ever complain prior? Was this in a severe weather event? Does the HOA treat that area on a routine basis?

Overall I would not rush to settle out of knee jerk reaction. Seems to me more proof has to be presented. Yes, they could have fallen and suffered injury. The issue is really could it have all been avoided or prevented if action was taken on the HOA's part.

Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
According to our attorneys, the courts look at whether the person fell because of a man-made hazard or not. If the COA failed to remedy a known danger, or if something the COA did led to a dangerous situation, then they would be liable. However, if the person simply slipped and fell after a minor snowfall, then the courts tend to say that if you live in an area that gets snow and ice, you need to know how to deal with it and you go outdoors at your own risk (no liability for the COA).

I agree that $1 million is probably not enough liability insurance. We carry twice that plus an umbrella policy. In the OP's position, I'd be looking at the likelihood of the plaintiff winning his suit and then settling without a fight if it appears the COA would lose.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
> He lived here, so basically suing his self?

Apparently he sold precisely so this is not happening.

SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posted:
You need more insurance. With that be said we had a former unit threaten a law suit against our HOA. We had the person that bought the home send a letter stating they were concerned the seller did not disclose that they were considering the law suit and that the if the seller disclosed that information, as he is required to do, he would not have bought the place. The seller backed off and dropped it. Depending on the timing this approach might work for you. If the buyer had disclosed he was going to sue the bank may not have lent the buyer the money to purchase the place. I would discuss it with the person handling the claim for your insurance company.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamE2 on 02/05/2019 7:08 PM
You need more insurance. With that be said we had a former unit threaten a law suit against our HOA. We had the person that bought the home send a letter stating they were concerned the seller did not disclose that they were considering the law suit and that the if the seller disclosed that information, as he is required to do, he would not have bought the place. The seller backed off and dropped it. Depending on the timing this approach might work for you. If the buyer had disclosed he was going to sue the bank may not have lent the buyer the money to purchase the place. I would discuss it with the person handling the claim for your insurance company.

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RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
First, governing documents, CCR's specifically under the Article for Insurance as well as state code will determine how much insurance is required.

Having worked for a large mortgage company I know the impact of potential litigation will have on the process of obtaining a loan. But sometimes a seller or a community doesn't know, or worse is lied to. I had a case where I lived where a Board member and the management company consistently lied during Board meetings and denying any lawsuit was going. Even when the Annual Review came out and stated there was one going on.
SamE2 (New Jersey)
Posts: 310
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 02/05/2019 7:55 PM
Posted By SamE2 on 02/05/2019 7:08 PM
You need more insurance. With that be said we had a former unit threaten a law suit against our HOA. We had the person that bought the home send a letter stating they were concerned the seller did not disclose that they were considering the law suit and that the if the seller disclosed that information, as he is required to do, he would not have bought the place. The seller backed off and dropped it. Depending on the timing this approach might work for you. If the buyer had disclosed he was going to sue the bank may not have lent the buyer the money to purchase the place. I would discuss it with the person handling the claim for your insurance company.


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Richard not sure what your question is. Our docs list required minimum insurance amounts as our association is over 30 years old we have much more than the minimum. The guy that is suing sold his unit since he doesn't live there anymore. In my state he is required to disclose anything that would negatively impact the unit. If he did not disclose he could be held responsible not to the HOA but to the buyer of the unit. In our case when the new homeowner threatened to sue the person he bought from the person dropped the suit.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Considering a lawsuit and filing a lawsuit are two different things. Is the seller required to disclose they "are" considering a lawsuit.? Didn't think so.
RoyalP
Posts: 1,104
Posted:
..... Anybody else in the snow states having issues with owners faling on ice/snow and suing. This is the second lawsuit for slip & fall (we have not had one the first 15 years of the condos) the first was dismssed which his attorney appealed and now is going to higher courts. .....


i am a former NYer

anyone can sue anybody anytime

however

to win a judgment there must have been BOTH a tort and negligence

snow falls - it must PROMPTLY be removed

ice forms - it must PROMPTLY be 'mitigated', if not prevented

the issue arises with the word 'promptly'

what would a person of reasonable intelligence define as prompt ?

? salting steps to PREVENT ice formation ?

? plowing snow @ one" accumulation ? three" ?

? repairing KNOWN cracks / deviations in walking surfaces ?

The budgetary constraints of a HOA have no bearing on liability.

? Does the HOA in ? PROACTIVELY maintain ice free / snow shovelled / repaired walking surfaces ?

if not, prima facie negligence
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
We always be sure we have no snow or ice buildup..............
RoyalP
Posts: 1,104
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 02/07/2019 6:21 AM
We always be sure we have no snow or ice buildup..............

John,

last winter my development had SIGNIFICANT and unexpected ice coverage from 'the storm'

Garden City area

many of our HOs were actually 'housebound' as there was NO rock salt to be had

it melted by the next day


JerryD5 (Colorado)
Posts: 218
Posted:
In our 13 year history, we have had 1 slip/fall lawsuit. The homeowner claims she slipped on ice near the entrance to her home (we are all single family homes). Our insurance settled for low 6 figures. I wasn't on the board when she sued but I would have fought it if I had. The area where she claimed to slip at was actually on her property and was caused by her outdoor fountain. When I joined the board, I pointed out that her fountain caused the icy area but we were also proactive to put ice melt down (even on her area).
RoyalP
Posts: 1,104
Posted:
Once y'all 'treated' her area y'all assumed responsibility.

The logic is:

her fountain creates an icy mess = her problem

she 'treats' the mess 'improperly' and falls = her problem

y'all 'treat' the mess 'improperly', she assumes a corporation 'knows how' and falls = YOUR problem

The HOAs need to stop 'thinking' and merely do exactly and precisely as the Covenants require.

no less - no more

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