hoa websites

Can anyone offer a good reason to disallow the use of a forum and a marketplace within their associations website. Our board refuses to use this tool for the members to discuss among themselves all issues, ideas, and suggestions. Having asked the bod for an explanation gets no response.

CharlesI1 - There's a tendency to write something in a forum that you wouldn't normally say face to face. Also, there's no human inflection in the writing so it can come across harsh, when it wasn't intended. The technology is flawed and IMHO does not lend itself well to an internal communication process between neighbors and Board members in an Association. I guarantee if sparring occurs on your proposed forum, there will be agenda topics at open meetings and the Board will have to remind everyone to get along, etc. Using a website for a marketplace, newsletter, minutes, cc&r's, etc. is a great idea.

If you do a homeowner forum on a website you can protect it with passwords. I would recommend that the BOD never interact with homeowners on the website. It can be used by the board members to get the feel of the community.

Joe,

Open forums are difficult to attend for the large number of absentee owners in our development who use their condo on irregular weekends or weeks. It's also unlikely that a majority of young working professionals who put in ten hours a day to find time to attend an open forum. Most folks under the age of 50 are more accustomed to communicating electronically through forums, email and text than they are any other mode. If involvement is wanted, the method matters to them. Additionally, there is a timeliness about electronic communication that an open forum or survey can't beat.

Sure enough, some discussions have gotten heated and one of two people have been rude. The positive side of that is that the rudeness caused the other 100 people to band together in a call for civility, flexibility and patience. Electronic forums are a great way for neighbors who otherwise would not know each other, to strike up an acquaintance and decide to meet.

My two cents . . .

I agree with Abigail. The younger homeowners are with the kids at night. They have no idea what goes on at a BOD meeting or in the community. They can spend time learning about thier community on line and will possibly take an active role.

We do not have a forum but I would advocate it. There is good and bad in every forum. As for obnoxious people, leave it up to the other members to handle them. In most forums this is how it is handled.

Jadedone4 - I don't expect my opinion to be popular. But password or not it matters. The method of an owner forum lends itself to uncivil communication about association related topics that have a very direct impact on property values/investments.

I'm blown away about your comment regarding suspension of owner's rights because of an errant post. What do your bylaws outline for suspension of owner's rights? Did owners vote to expand or amend that criteria to include errant posts on an HOA website? What constitutes errant, very subjective especially when it comes to text read over the internet. The fact that you had to make such a caveat says to me that the method is flawed, severely.

The times they are a-changing....Bob Dylan
OHIO
A meeting of the board of directors may be held by any method of communication, including electronic or telephonic communication provided that each member of the board can hear, participate, and respond to every other member of the board.

ILLINOIS
that any unit owner may record the proceedings at meetings or portions thereof required to be open by this Act by tape, film or other means; that the board may prescribe reasonable rules and regulations to govern the right to make such recordings,

TEXAS
A meeting of the board may be held by any method of
communication, including electronic and telephonic,

FLORIDA
bylaws may provide for a reasonable alternative to posting or mailing of notice for each board meeting, including publication of notice, provision of a schedule of board meetings, or the conspicuous posting and repeated broadcasting of the notice on a closed-circuit cable television system serving the homeowners' association.

Joe, suspension of rights was limited to posting on the website. Just as the "multiple personality" poster of late violated HOAtalk's standards of posts, so too can an owner's access to the website be suspended. The website was NOT intented to be a replacement for the community's participation in board meetings, just another tool for communications.

I am sure that some point in history, that newspapers, pony express, etc - all were found to be "ill-concieved" notions when it came to communications. I would tend to agree that IM's and other forms of "instant" communications would lend a hand to being too "advance" for most owners. However email and website forums do have a usefull place in HOA's, if they are managed properly.

The alternative is to continue to attempt to "make" owners who have not attended meetings, attend them as "is it required part of their responsibilities to the community." We have gone down that road and apathy plays a role - but so too does the inflexibility of boards to reasonably accomodate technological changes.

To the communities which think that email/websites are the "cure all's" I would strong caution them, as you have done here - they are not, and you do run the risk of violating "open meeting laws." To those communities which want to enhance and attempt to find ways to attract membership to be active participants in their communties; use email and website to COMPLEMENT your established (and required by gov/docs) means of communications.

I have to agree with AbigailC and the others who have agreed with her. If directors can (and do whether they admitt it or not) communicate via email but aren't willing to have the same discussion on an association message board where members may comment (just like at a meeting) then the logical conclusion is they have something to hide. And I'm willing to lay money that 99 times out of 100 that is the case.

"The method of an owner forum lends itself to uncivil communication about association related topics that have a very direct impact on property values/investments."

We have this type of communication, both civil and uncivil, at our Board meetings every month. Our property values have gone down, I thought it was the economy. Maybe we should stop talking about the association at our meetings and property values will go up.

JoeW1, I've got to agree with you on this and your subsequent posts. There are troublemakers in every group including HOAs. All it would take is one to start a real war in the association.

We have a website and we have posted our contact information (BOD members). We invite communications between members and BOD members but we're not going to support a forum for disgruntled members to "stir the pot", so to speak.

We had a sick troublemaker a couple years ago who tacked messages on every mailbox and e-mailed everyone who would give her an e-mail address. Think of the trouble she could have caused with a forum!

And don't think moderating the forum would help either - the troublemaker would accuse the moderator of "censorship".

JoeW1 - I was simply commenting on the new modes of communicating, and what I had observed from various States, related only to the single sentence I quoted - consider it an aside.

NancyD1 - I never objected to a calendar of events, committee meetings, minutes of BOD on a website. I objected to an owner forum section on an association website, plain and simple. I said, I said, the provision of that kind of forum is not a function of the BOD. Because I don't interpret the "To protect and promote the general welfare aof the hoemowner's" provision in bylaws to extend to an owner forum section in a website.

If you can't get 50% to vote in the elections, and you have an owner forum option on your website than there's the evidence that it's not beneficial. Instead of trying every avenue which I think is unfocused methodology, why not focus on the open meetings, publicize them often, and send a communication to owners that their participation and attendance is critical because it lowers their bottom line when they do.

Any suggestions as to how to "force owners to attend an open meeting"?

DaneC - "encourage the owners to attend an open meeting" is a more appropriate choice of words. To encourage the owners to attend I'd send out a notice to owners that the BOD is holding two "What's on Your Mind" nights on a certain month and that attendance is mandatory for all owners on one night as it is critical to the stability of the association. Sounds dramatic but there's nothing to prevent the BOD from doing it. Especially a BOD that does nothing but spend association money on websites and or rant that owners are apathetic.

"Do you really want this argument on a public forum? Will this unite or divide your association?"

Ronald, I would not consider a password protected forum public. I don't think everything a homeowner will post will be against the HOA either. Maybe they will talk about the great party we had Saturday night. Or has anyone been to the new restaurant down the street.

We are not arguing on this post, we are sharing views. I see the logic of most of the posts against a forum but it is a form of communication that is not going to go away.

My fellow board members and I communicate by e-mail constantly. This is how we know what is going on. We do speak on the phone but when we e-mail it goes to all.

Joe, we don't have a forum on our website. I will tell you that when this subject came up on this forum today, I e-mailed all my fellow BOD and asked them what they thought about starting a forum. So far 3 out of 5 have answered me by e-mail and want see if we can hash out the details. We will do this by e-mail because then we each add our 2 cents. Then we will ask the members if they want it at a BOD meeting.

We have "Town Hall Meetings" at least twice a year. We publish all meetings on our website, public bulletin board, and at the owner gate entrance up to two weeks before. We have even knocked on doors. The Town Hall Meetings are well attended, but not by the younger people.

I am 56, not of the computer generation but I have learned it because it is a necessity not an option in this day. I am so intent on this website forum because I feel it may be the last hope we have of getting to over 40% of the people, most under 40, who live in this community. They are our future and my fellow BOD members and I are worried that if they don't get involved, we are going to be on this BOD forever.

JoeW1, I was agreeing with you up to this point, but there's no way to make meeting attendance "mandatory". Some folks work evening or night shifts, some folks have commitments such as coaching or scouting, and some folks live out of town, out of state, or even out of the country.

Our attendance at our annual membership meeting is pathetic, but we must be doing OK or more would be there. We mail the required notice and we put signs at the entrance a coupe weeks in advance of the meeting. If they don't care to attend the meeting, if they won't go to the trouble of calling, mailing, or e-mailing, then it's just like city, county, state or federal elections - they don't care, they are willing to go along with the few that do care.

By "public", I meant the members. I should have made this clear.

Still, if an argument comes up on enforcing the covenants, how will this help? At least in our association, the covenants must be enforced or the BOD or ACC is not doing its duty. Why allow an argument or discussion on this? How about if people start complaining about their neighbors? Naming names? "Mrs. Jones at 123 Anystreet is a pig! She leaves trash all over the yard and needs to repaint her trim." How would you deal with that?

Worse, "There are too many (insert ethnic group here) in this neighborhood! We should do something about it."

Read through some of the threads on this forum. Note how some folks respond to others. Note how they get nasty from time to time. Now imagine if they were your association members and neighbors. It's very easy to post things on a web forum that you would never say in person.

Once you create this member forum, it could grow into a monster and you will have a difficult time containing or removing it. I suggest you think long and hard before you implement such a forum.

BTW: A password is only as secure as the person you give it to. I was the network manager for a very large high school. Students shared their paswswords all the time. Teachers and guidance counselors wrote their passwords on sticky notes stuck to the desk or monitor. So much for passwords.

Interesting discussion and good points made so far. As you know, we host many community websites so I'll share what we've seen.

Do forums work well for communities? The answer is "it depends". :-)

First we see many boards that have valid concerns around open forums. Here's some:
(1) The community website is the 'official face of the association on the Internet' and the Board is responsible for it. If they allow members to post on the website, then the Board is at least partially responsible for what is posted.

(2) Fear that the forum will simply be a soapbox for complainers and all the negativity will poison community spirit...another valid concern.

(3) Board members are volunteers and don't have the time to monitor member posts on their 'official' website. (see (1))

So that's the concerns we hear and the reasons some Boards leave open forums off their sites...all valid concerns and valid reasons not to have an open forum. In those cases we can install other communication features like an online suggestion box that sends suggestions to the board.

Now the good we've seen in online forums for communities that do use them. Here's some real examples:
(1) Lost pets found very quickly by neighbors that never met in the real world, but email from the forums notified the community and the dog was returned. People were actually out looking for him because of forum posts.

(2) A community with a persistent graffiti problem used the online forum to coordinate watches and clean up. Neighbors that had never met got involved and then met in person to clean up, etc.

(3) A community is considering major changes to it's recreation area due to non-member use. Many neighbors jumped into the discussion of options, contributed ideas and even volunteered to help with the work.

(4) A community that had persistent pool closings decided via online discussions to extend the pool's closing date and garnered volunteers to handle the extra opening and closing days.

(5) Social gatherings are promoted, planned and discussed. People feel more involved.

There are some things that real-time communication via online forums are really good for and they can actually bring communities closer together.

Here's a real quote sent to use by a homeowner in a community that uses our open forum (edited for privacy), "I live in the ********* subdivision in ******, and I love how we can communicate back and forth as a neighborhood and have all emails documented and available in a database for future reference."

On the bad side: Yes a few negative rants and complainers can ruin it for everyone, if taken too far. However, we have also seen online complaints generate positive solutions as well.

You can moderate a forum (approve messages) if you have the volunteers for it and a clear set of posting rules. Just be sure to explain WHY you are moderating or the members get offended.

In the end, we offer many types of communications solutions and have learned there is no one right answer for all communities. Each community has its own personality and way of working.

... if that was posted here at HOATalk - as a response to a posted concern/question, what would occur...?

I respect the opinions of those who state that website forums are a bad option for communities. However, I still believe that with the proper "maintenance" (as is done here, and exampled by recent actions to limit abusive/offensive posts), that website forum are a useful medium of communications. That is not to state that they should be the ONLY method of communication, but should complement those in place (and/or required by community's bylaws, or state/local "open meeting" requirements).

I also have to "chuckle" at RonaldW's community member and the message posted. Unless I am off-base in my assessment - I do not believe that was awe-inspiring "give em hell" pep talk, that would actually get owners in that community (or any others) to respond. I say that, and couple it with the recent "posters" we have had here, who were removed - to emphasis that we (the remaining HOAtalk members) are still communicating via the site. As far as I can tell, nothing has stopped the "regulars" from posting information/opinions based on the errant personality posters. Have there been some "lurkers" who read the recent posts in question (offensive/abusive ones) and took opinions...? probably. And that can occur with a community's website forum as well, just as it can occur in a "brick/mortar" building meeting. The difference is that if offensive/abuse issues are raise in a "brick/mortar" meeting - the offended owner(s) may not return to the next. On a website forum, everyone can read the messages, be offended, or not offended, chose to participate or not to participate, and still have access to the information.

Jadedone4 - I'm sure HOATalk can enlighten you better than I as to the time, energy, money, etc. that is involved in administering a website. Do you really think volunteers in an association have the time to do the same? It's a day job.

You don't know the lady and I didn't post her other twenty or so e-mails. I believe she's mentally ill or at least in a lot of pain.

RonaldW - Covenants? What are you referring to? Do you mean that enforcement of covenants will be viewed by owners as non-mandatory because owners weren't hit with some sort of penalty for not attending a mandatory meeting? What I am trying to offer is another method for increasing owner participation. I guarantee you will get people to attend and it's then up to the Board to get people interested and over the hump of lethargy and apathy in their number 1 investment. An association does not run on fumes. It runs on the support and volunteer efforts of people who can do more than type on a keyboard in cyberspace.

NancyD1:

To reiterate your statement..."I am so intent on this website forum because I feel it may be the last hope we have of getting to over 40% of the people, most under 40, who live in this community. They are our future and my fellow BOD members and I are worried that if they don't get involved, we are going to be on this BOD forever..."

I hear your concern over the fact that your community's volunteers are few and there may not be anyone to assume Board positions....but, creating a web forum for residents is not the way to get positive participation of those who are apathetic. This choice of a solution may actually create more problems for the community with tension and strife among members...thereby, defeating your original purpose.

Why not zero in on the actual problem. Since you state that over 40% of the people are under 40 yrs. old, why not think of activities to get them involved? Some suggestions for those with kids: schedule an end-of-summer picnic with games (the kids will come and bring their parents); covered dish dinner, movie night w/rented popcorn machine (outside), a kids' parade for 'decorated' bikes; water balloon toss; slip 'n slide w/hose connected... There are many, many ways to entice the kids out and then the parents will come too.

Do you have an Activities Committee? If not, start one. Send out a questionnaire on what activities residents would like to see scheduled;
ask for volunteers to brainstorm some scheduled events, especially throughout the cold, winter months when resident exposure is less. Also ask if anyone is adept at crafts, or other activities they might want to share with others--knitting, cooking, sewing, woodworking, computer lessons, gardening, interior decorating... Don't forget the men as well; there's golf outings, bowling, cards, billiards, chess/checkers.

If you become successful at creating an atmosphere of fun, residents enjoying other residents and their families, all will see the need to invest time in their community and you won't have any trouble getting volunteers.

Have I told you the story about the many young families that protested and wanted a tot lot? On opening day of this tot lot, clowns were hired, cake and ice cream, games for the kids. A past board member and her 3 grandchildren showed and 2 kids that were visiting, that's it. The ones who proselytized that there was nothing for the families did not show. When anyone sees kids in the tot lot now, they want a camera to publish the pictures in our newsletter.

We had an Activities Committee, they all resigned. Not enough participation from homeowners.

Two parents showed with three kids for our special Santa party geared just for the kids in December.

Paul, thanks for the suggestions above. We have tried everyone of your suggestions for the kids. We do have most of the clubs mentioned for adults. We get the participation from the older community members but not the younger.