Service Dogs in Pool

Hi JerryV, you appear to be referring to laws like the federal Americans with Disabilities Act. As you wrote, this applies to places of public accommodation. Many people think HOAs, being private, do not have to accommodate disability. Not so. At HOAs, the Fair Housing Act is the proxy for the ADA when it comes to disability.

If I were on your HOA board, and with a nod to the havoc that HUD and state agencies can cause a HOA not accommodating disability, I would ensure the member's and dog's papers were in order and inform her that she may bring her dog into the pool area. I view pools as vital to many people's health, and in some cases, especially the health of the disabled.

Disability seems to be the area of direct discrimination where HUD is the most active these days. Maybe because disability discrimination typically offers the most concrete proof. We are talking about thinks like unsat sidewalks; parking; service dogs; restrooms; and so on.

AugustinD,
I see your point,but if a person doesn't have to disclose a disability, then people can just do whatever they want. I know this person is not disabled. In fact, when I was on the Board we had a person with a service animal who was allowed to use the pool. We had no problem with that. But in this case, this is a "companion" dog which is not recognized by ADA. Heck EVERY dog is someone's companion! By the way, we're not talking about a lap dog. It must weigh 50 lbs and runs all around the pool, basically out of control.

What does the Florida Department of Health say?

http://www.floridahealth.gov/%5c/environmental-health/swimming-pools/index.html

Remember: Y'all are NOT, repeat NOT, a place of public accommodation.

To go where 'no man wants to go':

NO ANIMALS IN POOL AREA - PERIOD

Does one want a blind person swimming except with 'specialty' life guards present ?

Would paying such 'guards' be an unreasonable expense ?

Does one want an emotionally disabled person who can not function w/o 'emotional support' swimming ?

Who will pay for the REQUIRED pool closing if/when the animal has an 'accident' ?

MOST 'authorities having jurisdiction' (eg. dept of health) PROHIBIT animals at the pool PERIOD.

There ARE exceptions to ADA and FHA and HUD rules.

let the debate begin

yep - first part is easy.

Insist on the letter required for the animal to be a service animal - NOT a companion animal.

If the Board will not do this, then let them know you will be calling the local department of health, etc to report and unsafe and unsanitary condition.

The Board will likely do the easy thing. :-)

Thank you all for your insight, suggestions and links. Lots of good info. We have our Board meeting tonight and I'll find out how the grievance I filed is addressed.
Jerry

KerryL1, all dogs must be on a leash on common areas.

Jerry, if she is asking for a reasonable accommodation on account of disability, and the disability is not obvious, then she has to provide verification of the disability. See for example: https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/ReasonableAccommodations15 and
https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/SERVANIMALS_NTCFHEO2013-01.PDF

Mental disability counts as a possible reason for an "emotional support animal."

As needed the board should inform this member that she will have to provide proof of disability, pursuant to HUD guidelines.

This topic comes up a lot here. Forget about ADA. Forget about HIPPA. The law here is all from the Fair Housing Act and HUD guidance on same.

I'm not sure why there's a debate. No dogs in the pool or at the pool. I see references to North Carolina in this thread and animals in the water does violate some health rules. It's not the end of the world but it's not good practice.

At last night's board meeting, our grievance director read my grievance and said that the woman told her the dog is a "service" animal and that she doesn't have to disclose the nature of her "disablity", citing HIPPA. So I produced the Florida Statute that said service animals must demonstrate what they are specifically trained to do and must be leashed. If we let her continue bringing the animal to the pool, everyone else will start doing the same (at least 6 other people said they'd like to bring their pets to the pool also) One of them has their OWN pool in the backyard and when asked why don't you just use it, he said he would prefer the community pool so his "service" dog can socialize with the other dogs. They want to turn our pool into doggy water park!
I suggested that in the future, if anyone wants to bring their "service" animal to the pool they should come before the Board to explain what service the animal actually performs. If they can't or won't prove that it is a service animal, then they will not be allowed pool privileges. "NO PROOF, NO POOL"

LetA, that's what I'm suggesting to our board. Anyone wanting to bring a service animal to the pool must prove that it is indeed a service animal. That will weed out the people who just want to bring their dogs swimming.

Update on Service Dogs in Pool:

When confronted with the copy of FL statutes clearly stating the definition of "service" the woman replied "I am fostering this dog and it is being trained to be a dope sniffing dog for the Sheriff's Dept." I feel that answer doesn't pass the sniff test! (pun intended) She just made our case.

LOL. Just FYI, you always need to look at Federal Law. Many states have different definitions but Federal of course trumps them all. But this doesn't sound like a real service dog!

Look, everyone is trying to be nice and to be authoritative regarding this circumstance.

It sounds like this is going to go down the right way - the OP/BoD has cornered the woman with the dog and gotten enough information to walk the dog back to the likely fact the dog is not protected and should not be in the pool area.

If we weren't nice, we might say something like ... "yeah, another owner who doesn't care about the rules, they just want what they want."

OP - hold this one tight on the rules, get everything in writing, make certain you know what you are talking about ... then toss her and her dog out of the pool. The dog because it isn't supposed to be there, and her for continually lying to the representatives of the BoD.

She's claiming that the dog is being trained to be a drug sniffing dog for the Sheriff's dept. (her husband is a deputy) I don't think that qualifies as a "service dog" Also, we have video showing the dog running unleashed around the pool and jumping in the pool to fetch balls tossed by the owner!

A service dog may go anywhere their handler needs to go. Period.

True Service Dogs may go anywhere their handlers go, period.

CORRECT

but

still not allowed (for public health reasons) [b/in the pool itself, merely allowed on the deck

Not so. By your reasoning a person's home is "semi-public" because a person has guests over once in awhile.

This topic is well-covered on the net. Condos and HOAs are not necessarily subject to ADA law. Not that it matters, since Fair Housing Act/HUD law against disability discrimination is about as good as the ADA.

Service dogs may also be prohibited from churches, synagogues, mosques etc. From https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

Q34. Are churches, temples, synagogues, mosques, and other places of worship required to allow individuals to bring their service animals into the facility?

A. No. Religious institutions and organizations are specifically exempt from the ADA. However, there may be State laws that apply to religious organizations.

The HUD guidelines defer to the ADA for the definition of a *service* dog. In other aspects, it talks about ESAs and service dogs, but doesn't outline the higher status and rights of a *service* dog.

It's complicated!

Says you. Under the law, HOAs need to reasonably accommodate the disabled and their service animal or their emotional support animal. A key word is "reasonably." HOAs may require certain documentation when the disability is not obvious. HUD has much guidance on the subject and many example lawsuits where HUD prevailed in a disability discrimination case. What seems to be fairly common are (1) people who do not have documentation but try to test the patience of HOA boards (as appears to be the case in this thread); and (2) HOA boards who typically are ignorant of the law and eager to make battles into ego wars or displays of their ability to bully.

Thanks to all for the insights and thoughts. I will update with any new developements.
Thanks again!

Jerry,
We have to assume that you have signs informing people that the area is under Video surveillance 24 hours a day. I would tell her to take that frivolous lawsuit and go to Wal Mart who has dozens of cameras watching every move customers make while in and around it's stores. She is trying to scare the board and bully you.

She's a hoot!