Truck issue

SC, it depends on what your governing documents "define" as commercial vehicles? I have read some that state pick-up trucks which have loads of "xyz" are deemed to be commercial, regardless of personal use. There are others that state attachments to truck (decals, whether permanent or temporary, ladder holders, tools, etc), or other items translate to "commercial" designations. Not sure if a community can "ban" a truck (at least not legally) owned by a resident - they can however, require garage, driveway, or some other condition. Even further, if your community does not have such a rule - then ANY owner who has a truck NOW, is (IMHO) exempted from future rules/enforcement, or "grandfathered."

Take a look at your doc's to see what/how they address commercial vehicles, and also parking/garage requirements, and work from there.

SC, if your CC&Rs state: "pick-up trucks must be parked out of view from the street or any other lot" then it is a violation of a restriction to park a pickup on the driveway. Thus, you are in violation if you change oil or do minor repairs on your driveway.

Just because a violation to a restriction was not enforced in the past does not mean that a 'new' can not be enforced. By 'new' I am referring to parking your pickup in view now as compared to the past since it is a moveable object.

LindaC3 - Agree with you. I also think a lot of these rules are best viewed as enforceable to deter long term non-compliance. Some are not acceptable such as not picking up after your dog, etc. However, in my COA there's a rule that no towels can be hung on any railings outside. From time to time an owner will come back from the pool and hang a towel on their rear deck railing. It's always temporary. You'd drive yourself crazy if you policed every little thing that ultimately make up the spice of life.

Also-the rules state that only cars, SUVs, and minivans may be parked in view.

LindaC3 and RogerB: I think between the two of you we can come up with a reasonable policy/rule that everyone can work with. Thank you.

Now can you help me with another truck problem? The Board also extends the truck rule to guests of residents. Meaning, if you visit my home in a regular pick-up truck, the Board wants the resident to insist that the guest park their truck in the garage, and move the resident's car into the driveway so the guest's truck is concealed from view. (Whether it's overnight, 2 days, or just a few hours.)

The Association allows repair trucks (marked or not) to park in a resident's driveway or on the street in front all day long. On any weekday there are 4-5 in the neighborhood. It seems unfriendly and unwelcoming to tell a guest that their vehicle needs to be "hidden from view". Frankly, it's embarrassing to enforce this rule.

I think the Board is afraid that once you let guests park pick-up trucks in the neighborhood, then it's only a matter of time before the truck rule will be attacked. I know, the CAI says truck bans are an outdated rule. But apparently our neighborhood is outdated. ;-)

Any words of wisdom?

JudithC-so did you keep the truck ban after going through it?

Restricting guests from parking pick up trucks? This is just the type of ludicrous story the media would love. Sometimes some of these HOA rules just defy every bit of logic and common sense and needs to be brought to the public's attention. Does your documents specifically address guest's vehicles? Has your HOA actually fined members for guest's pick ups?
Our documents only addresses guest street parking over 48 hours, and there seems to be a movement afoot in Arizona to take public street parking control away from HOAs. It narrowly lost this year and will most certainly be back next year. These type of rules are what causes state legislatures to become involved adding more HOA controls. If we don't want more state controls, we need to eliminate these kind of rules ourselves. Harold

SC...............Ah the never ending controversy over pick um up trucks...LOL............ I live in florida in an equestrian and fly in community with dirty dusty roads so the issue of trucks here is a moot point....We all laughed last week when a potential buyer drove his lamborgini here and found out real quick that he WILL NEED a truck to live here....LOL...........

But on another note..... as a custom home designer I have to read all HOA rules and regs BEFORE I can design a clients home.... I have read some doozies about trucks not being allowed.....I would have to say for the most part I have never seen one like what you told us about....Most of what I read says they must be parked in the garage OVERNITE.....They are allowed to be in the driveway during daylight hours and for general housekeeping of the vehicle.....One community rules state that ALL vehicles are prohibited from being washed in the driveway, something about the retention ponds, but they have provided a washing area for folks to go and do their thing...
One HOA does not allow trucks to be visible on Sundays....Imagine when I showed up for a Sunday meeting with the clients ( first meeting ) and they had to hustle to move all their cars so I could park in garage....The truck did not fit.....It's a 4x4 2006 Dodge.....So had no choice to park in driveway and BEFORE i could get out the door was met by the Pres of the HOA just all worked up about my big red truck parked there..... Thought he was going to have a coronary..............Told him to take 10 deep breaths...... and that we tried to park in garage but it don't fit.......He then calmed down..... I did alot smiling at him.. making light of the situation.... he commented about a little girl driving such a big truck etc.... and then all was well....he let me park there for 4 hours.... So I guess there are exceptions when folks are reasonable..............

For the most part I guess it would weigh heavily on the type of neighborhood where you live with regards to rules.Like ours,based on the subdivision we would never have a rule against trucks per se...We do have a rule that you cant drive your 18 wheel rig in here, but we allow passenger style trucks....We do not have a rule against commercial vehicles either such as a plumber, electrician, etc..... We live way out of town so would be hardship for these folks to leave vehicles at work.....

I guess for the most part HOA'S and Condos will always have the dilemna of the truck issue till doomsday....There are not any quick one size fits all solutions to this issue... If you have a prudent BOD that may be approached to be reasonable about relaxing of the truck ban rule I would say try that first.... Ask for a clarification of the word PARKED.... maybe you could upload your exact wording of the rule and we all could decipher what they are really saying ?????

I remember a while back RogerB had mentioned to me about a problem I was having about a RULE and he told me to see if it passed the " BEING REASONABLE " test........ I actually found a great SIX PAGE article about being reasonable with regards to rules in an HOA and posted it to my neighborhood forum and LOTS of folks read it, the BOD then understood that we all meant business that before they start making all these RULES, be sure it will pass the test of being reasonable......We have good luck with that....and once again a BIG THANKS to ROger B for leading to that.............. LindaC3

Jadedone4............I am loving the "pinto" thing.....We use to drive one years ago and it is now a race car...LOL...........

Multi passenger vans......... Are still considered passenger vehicles if they have the seating to accomodate passengers >>>>>

We have a family here that has ELEVEN KIDS......and planning on more....God love em....BUT they went out and purchased a BUS...yes a BUS... a small school bus- still bright school bus yellow and claimed it to be a passenger vehicle...the BOD went nuts over this one as the majority of us here also did.... The title of the vehicle is a BUS and thus not allowed in our HOA ....They claimed we were discriminating against them because of the size of their family....The BOD then said they could keep it if they parked in a building and made it fall under the ruling of RV'S...of course they do not have a garage,,,can't afford to build one either...Now they use for the church ..he is a minister.....and they keep it parked in town...They went out and purchased 2 mini vans/conversion type and use them for transporting all the kids........

LindaC3

RogerC-What would you enforce regarding guest vehicles as repair vehicles are expressly allowed. But guest vehicles are not mentioned in rules or covenants.

Good Day. I had to add to this string. I am the current president of my HOA. There had always been issues over "commercial vehicles" in our community. When I took office, along with two other supporter,(we became the majority on a 5 member board)our first complaint and test was over commercial vehicles. A number of homeowners had small vans or pick-up trucks with signs on the side for their business/livelihood. I researched Florida Statutes and the only definition of commercial vehicles was: Any vehicle for hire, over ten thousand pounds, carrying hazardous waste or more than 15 passengers was considered a "commercial vehicle". I presented this at a monthly meeting and was met with a number of complaints from the audience. (we allow questions from the floor as long as it is not disruptive) I explained that a judge in a civil court does not look at the intent of a HOA covenant, he/she looks at how it is wording is legally defined. The board discussed this issue and decided that the complaint valid.

IMO, you have to look at the entire picture when enforcing HOA Covenants. The intent must be in BLACK and WHITE.

BTW, in Florida, HOA covenants do not apply to public roadways. In fact in Manatee County, (where I live) gated communities, with public streets CANNOT forbid any access through their gates.

The Third District Court of Appeal in Miami ruled 2-1 that the city of Coral Gables can't enforce the "unconstitutional" code that for years prevented residents from parking pickups in their driveways overnight.

In the ruling, Senior Judge Alan R. Schwartz called it "frightening" for a government to make something illegal because some people don't like the way something looks.

"Our nation and way of life are based on a treasured diversity, but Coral Gables punishes it," he said.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-flbcondocol0905nbsep05,0,5570879.column

You might want to check out this article: "Ruling on pickups won't wipe out bans by condo associations" at:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-flbcondocol0905nbsep05,0,5570879.column

Joe

To answer a quesion, in my county some gated communities were developed with county funds to pay for the roads, utilities and road repairs. The gates were added by the developers to enhance the community value. An overzelous gate attendent refused entry into the community to a county employee. He reportedly had "no invitation to be there and was not a guest" so he was turned away. The county challanged this and the courts concluded that if the road are privately funded, the gate can restrict entry. If publicly funded, they are open to all. Visitors can be stopped, and their tag recorded, but they must be allowed to enter.

Jade - Nice Posting >>> I think that the weight and load limits provides (for the most part) a reasonably fair way to draw a line in the sand. I've seen some HOA's that have specific size restrictions and that's totally nutty. Our problem with Trucks and open spaces is purely their size. We've all heard the story where the homeowner had to change out his bumper because his truck was too long according to the HOA docs.

Our bylaws have always defined commercial vehicles as follows. "Parking of commercial vehicles in the Community is not allowed. County XXX Defines commercial vehicles as any vehicle with a carrying capacity of 1500 pounds (3/4 ton) or more. Additionally, any vehicles with advertising, regardless of its carrying capacity, is considered a commercial vehicle. Advertising is defined to include, but not be limited to, the display of a company and/or product name and telephone number and/or email address. Any vehicle with pipe racks or ladder racks or a combination thereof is also considered to be a comercial vehicle."

Our extra parking spaces that are open to everyone, are very small, and the original engineers (back in 1989) probably never contemplated that so many people would be driving large SUVs, Large Vans, and pickups by 2007; but I have to tell you that because the spaces are so small, there is only like 6 inches between vehicles if you park two GMC Yukons, or two vans right next to each other. There is only one open/visitor space for every 3 townhomes, so it’s not like you can just make them bigger. It’s unbelievable that folks park their 40$ to $60,000 luxury new cars in the visitor spaces and fill their garages up with crap. Then I look at all the dings in these new cars and just scratch my head.

Now I have one resident that wants to park a ¾ ton government (12 Passenger) Van, and/or a 3/4 ton Yukon. While the bylaws says that he has the right to park a government “sedan” here, it’s still subject to the limitation of the commercial vehicle definition and clearly our docs say that "Police and County government sedans may be parked on the Property in accordance with the Declaration and these regulations. These vehicles are not sedans and they are just too wide. Sedans... Huh...Don’t the cops drive Lincoln Town Cars anymore?