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GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Our Bylaws dictate what needs to be on our Annual Meeting agenda. "New Business" is one of those items. The statute, FS 720.309, says

"Any contract entered into by the board may be canceled by a majority of the voting interests present at the next regular or special meeting of the association, whichever occurs first. Any member may make a motion to cancel such contract, but if no motion is made or if such motion fails to obtain the required vote, the contract shall be deemed ratified for the term expressed therein."

Would such a motion to cancel a contract entered into by the board be in order without the topic being listed on the agenda? What on earth is "New Business" at an Annual Meeting? Who decides that?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I Googled this question - here's part of what one website said

"New business is usually discussed near the end of a meeting. Often, after participants finish with planned topics, the meeting leader allows anyone with a new business topic or idea to present it. If brief, these new business items may be finished or resolved quickly. If not, they may be tabled for the next meeting."

So, new business could be almost anything - the board can then decide if the matter should be assigned to a committee for further review, ask the homeowner to do some additional research and bring it to the next meeting, have the property manager investigate the issue and bring the findings to the next meeting, etc. Who decides if it's new? Well, if it wasn't listed on the agenda and no one had discussed the matter until that moment, that would make it new.

In this case, I'm not sure why the membership would be able to cancel a contract if it's already been signed. I would think this would mean the association would have to eat the cancellation costs, which might be rather hefty? I suppose that's a topic for another thread, but in the meantime.....I take the above to mean the president or whoever's presiding over the meeting would ask if there's new business, someone stands up and lists his/her objection to the contract for whatever reason, followed by some discussion and then the president asks for a motion as to what happens next. In this case, cancelling a contract is a big deal so I would move that the matter is tabled until the next meeting. Between the annual and next meeting, some research could be done to bring to the next meeting for further discussion.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
New business is anything that isn't a continuation from the previous meeting.

Typically, if not already listed, the President will ask if anyone has any new business.

Keep in mind that even if the membership can cancel the contract, the terms of the contract may require the Association to pay a cancellation fee or to actually pay for work that the membership has refused. Therefore, be sure to include cancellation terms in all contracts. You may want to consult an attorney for the proper language the Association should insist upon.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/24/2018 6:44 PM
New business is anything that isn't a continuation from the previous meeting.

Typically, if not already listed, the President will ask if anyone has any new business.

Keep in mind that even if the membership can cancel the contract, the terms of the contract may require the Association to pay a cancellation fee or to actually pay for work that the membership has refused. Therefore, be sure to include cancellation terms in all contracts. You may want to consult an attorney for the proper language the Association should insist upon.

The contract in question has a 30-day cancellation clause already.

We normally populate New Business agenda items at the Agenda Meetings prior to the Board Meetings. But this is at an Annual Meeting of the Members where there's usually no ageda meeting beforehand. The sample agenda in the Bylaws is normally followed. If it's allowed for any Member (homeowner) to bring something up during the New Business portion of the meeting then that would answer the question.

The Board entered into a contract with a maintenance man. The second paragraph says the contractor shall maintain his own worker's compensation insurance. The third paragraph says he will have a county contractor's license which must be presented to the board.

He has neither insurance nor a license. The Board has seen fit to ignore these breaches. If the members vote to cancel the contract, we'd ask our attorney about how to go about it seeing as there is a 30-day out clause. If the members voted to not cancel the contract we'd move to have the contract sent to the attorney anyway to get his opinion on the hiring of uninsured and unlicensed contractors. We'll be electing 4 new board members in January (out of 5) and want to prod them into what many of us think is the appropriate course of action here.

Just making a motion - allowed by state law - to cancel the contract (for good reason) would stir up some interesting discussion and debate, if nothing else.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 09/24/2018 7:01 PM

If it's allowed for any Member (homeowner) to bring something up during the New Business portion of the meeting then that would answer the question.


Unless there are notice requirements for things that are to be voted on, then yes - a member may bring up the issue and it can be acted upon.

Have you tried informing the Board that if the issue isn't addressed, you will bring it up for a vote at the annual meeting? Yes, it gives them a heads up but it might also prompt them to act prior to the meeting.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/24/2018 8:23 PM
Have you tried informing the Board that if the issue isn't addressed, you will bring it up for a vote at the annual meeting? Yes, it gives them a heads up but it might also prompt them to act prior to the meeting.

Not yet, but I will if other efforts on this front fail. There are a couple of board members who are appalled that this has been going on for several years. The rest are aware of it but for whatever reasons don't seem too concerned.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I also wonder about proxies. Homeowners in a FL HOA have the right to vote by proxy. If there is going to be a vote to cancel a contract, doesn't the right to vote by proxy imply that the question re. the cancellation of a contract need to be included on the proxy forms? I still think the fact that such a motion is to be considered requires that the question be included in the Annual Meeting agenda in advance of the meeting. Merely making a motion out of left field during the New Business portion of the meeting is probably fine but who can put it on the agenda? Do the members need to call a special members meeting just to approve agenda items for the Annual Meeting?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
When is your annual meeting? If you have a regular meeting beforehand, why not attend and bring this up at that time? Hopefully that meeting agenda includes some sort of open forum where residents can bring up suggestions, comments and criticisms on any subject. The board might debate and take care of this at that time or at least do some sort of review and present a report at the time of the annual meeting. That said, boards don’t have to take immediate action on new business or issues raised during open forum. Depending on the issue, they might ask the property manager to investigate or take up the matter at the next meeting.

Otherwise, I stick to my original suggestion – bring it up at the annual meeting under “new business,” but you might not get a vote on it right then and there. You will have brought up the subject and since other people would have heard your concerns, that may be enough to put the board on notice this has to be addressed sooner rather than later.

If you’re going to present this as new business, I don’t think proxies will help unless you get it on the regular agenda where it can be discussed and the homeowners can get a copy of the agenda and details on the issue so they can make an informed decision when voting. If there isn’t a regular board meeting before your annual, I stick to my first suggestion – bring it up at the annual under “new business” and see what happens. At least you will have raised the issue and other people will know your concerns – that could be enough to put the board on notice that it will have to address this sooner rather than later.

You said the contract stated the man is supposed to maintain worker’s comp insurance and present proof of the county license to the board. Is there a start date on this contract? If so, someone should make it clear that these documents must be presented on or before the start date (I’d suggest at least a week before he’s supposed to begin his work). You might want to ask the board what the man has done thus far to be compliant with the contract that HE signed and note the risks if they allow the man to work on association property. And are you sure there’s isn’t some sort of out clause on this contract if the man doesn’t provide this information? That may be all the board needs to cancel the contract on its own and not need a vote from the homeowners.

I hope you do prod, poke and do whatever you need to do to educate the board members on the importance of doing their due diligence in hiring quality contractors to handle association projects – however this ends, I’d tell the newbies I’d like to see some sort of formal resolution to that effect (e.g. proof of worker’s comp insurance and current license must be presented before the contract is signed.) I’d also add a requirement that the contractor releases the association for all subcontractor liens. This way if he/she hires someone to do the work and that person doesn’t get paid, they won’t be able to come after the association for payment.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 09/25/2018 5:19 AM
I also wonder about proxies. Homeowners in a FL HOA have the right to vote by proxy. If there is going to be a vote to cancel a contract, doesn't the right to vote by proxy imply that the question re. the cancellation of a contract need to be included on the proxy forms?

Only if it's a directed proxy.

If it's a general proxy, then the proxy representative may vote how they think is best.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
The Annual Meeting is in late January.

The contractor had a medical issue at the beginning of the month and was only here a total of two half-days the week of September 3rd and for 2-and-a-half days the week of September 10th. On Friday September 14th he was given a check that was the same amount as every other check he received this year. Protests were met with, "He's an independent contractor and we can't manage or control his hours." Well, according to his contract he shouldn't be paid for holidays or sick time, either, so why did we pay him for 2 weeks worth of work when he was only here for 3.5 days? There was no response to that at all. They ignore that question and continue on as if the question was never asked.

Exhibit A to his contract lists over 100 tasks he is contracted to perform. He might do 10% or 15% of them. We recently hired an additional cleaning service to clean the clubhouse every couple of weeks. That's only one example. There are others too numerous to mention or bore you with.

I was mistaken about the paragraph numbers above. The requirement to have a contractor's license is in paragraph 1 and the insurance he is supposed to carry is in paragraph 6.

I triple checked my redactions in the attached pdf file.
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📎192521530471.pdf(100 KB)
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Oh.... and yes, there are indeed 2 paragraphed numbered 9.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
October will be here in a few days, so it would seem you have some time to bring this up at a regular meeting. The board entered into this contract, so you need to press THEM on this issue. You have good questions, so ask them and keep asking until the board responds. Take some neighbors with you to that meeting so they can also hear what's being said. Or not, if there was no response.

Which is why if this board is ignoring you, this should provide even more incentive for people to get involved and vote the current bunch out. Then you can address the contract if you have to. Contracts can always be renegotiated and if this guy hasn't completely fulfilled his obligations, you should be able to cancel it for that reason. He may squawk and threaten to sue, but if you do your homework and can demonstrate what he hasn't done, you may stand a good chance of winning.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Thanks, Shelia. There are already 6 of 7 other owners who are concerned about the situation. It's not like I'm the only one in the neighborhood riding around on my horse and tilting at windmills.

There will be an almost completely new board next year with some fresh faces; people recently retired in the last few years who want to protect their most important assets. There's a decent chance that they will want to remedy the situation. One guy moved in a year ago after working for 20 years as a maintenance foreman for a large HOA south of us. His first comment to us at the pool last year when we met him: "What does this maintenance man actually do?"

So there's hope and maybe we won't have to press the issue at the Annual Meeting. We'll get a better idea after we talk to these (hopefully) four candidates for the board over the next few months.

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